Wow, this is getting exciting! Love hearing each new part and how it adds to to the whole sound. The vocals are blending well and I like the mando break.
Would be great to be involved in another project if that’s ok with y’all. Your choice for song as this is a new field for me. I’m still on the learning curve so remember any advice about recording quality gratefully accepted. Thanks for the word there Mike, I have looked at the video tutorials and think I will be able to get the click next time, and understand how this makes editing easier.
Netgrass Collaboration #2
@ Jesse, I know you didn’t ask me but - it would be best to record your break at the spot where it is going to fit in the song. this way the engineer doesn’t have to spent the time trying to get your lead synced back into the correct spot.
@ Larry, I like the way you matched the guitar run. I noticed the mando rhythm is a near copy of the guitar rhythm. Kind of wonder whether they will bury each other a bit with the mando ringing through all the chords that way.
The part you sang is down around 5th below (low tenor on 2 below harmonies) or a Bass part. The Baritone (3rd below/octave below 5th above) would actually be a bit higher and closer to the lead. You should have a chord triad for every note sung.
— Begin quote from "Oldhat"
Hey KittyMix: If I am doing my break and doing the lead-in clicks and in time then please tell me where you would like for me to put the guitar break or would you just want me to record the break and you drop it in once we decide where it goes?
— End quote
Either way would work. If you have an idea for where you want the break, then I’d say put it where you want it with the click tracks. I haven’t given any thought to what goes where. I think Dave wanted the intro and outro (or part of each) for fiddle. Other than that and the mando part, I think it’s a wide open canvas.
I took a break to come mix the mando part in, but Larry beat me to it. It adds to it nicely. I like the break, it’s a good one! I still like Larry’s idea for the outro, it may be worth working out. I like the bari vocals too. There’s another harmony part that we haven’t covered yet… starts off F (you + won’t) E (Ev) F (ver) G (for) F (get) C(me). I think that might be the one Jesse was saying he could sing up or down.
Just a wild hair thought… if we get enough vocal tracks going, for the last chorus we add some more singing the main part and put them all together and make it sound like a bunch of guys (maybe get some girls too) singing in a bar for the last chorus. Maybe throw in some ambient bar noise. I know, it’s cheesy, but it might sound fun. I just had to start a little controversy.
Post note: As I was typing, Dave posted on the 3rd below part. We are talking about the same thing.
I noticed I was essentially playing the same rhythm as the guitar, but I couldn’t come up with a different chop that kept the waltz feel. I"m open to suggestions.
I’ll work on the vocals again. I didn’t think they were quite right, but I couldn’t quite figure it out.
Mike, I didn’t intend my rough mix to substitute for what you are doing. I just piled my tracks on top of yours.
— Begin quote from "ldpayton"
Mike, I didn’t intend my rough mix to substitute for what you are doing. I just piled my tracks on top of yours.
— End quote
That’s what I was going to do, so that’s great. Until we get all the parts together, if we can kind of keep a rough idea mix of how it’s coming together, I think that’s all we need. I think having multiple people compiling things will help keep it moving along.
I’ve got a neighbor’s birthday party to attend, so I’ll be out for a while. Ya’ll have fun!
When I play the baritone notes on the mandolin I can hear where my harmony singing is off, but my ear doesn’t naturally go there. I think I figured out a trick, though. I took my basic mando tef tab and lowered it a third. Now, I can pipe that through my headphones along with the mix to keep me in line when I record.
Larry I am no harmony singer but that is a good way to get your harmonies in the ball park. I simply either use a capo or transpose and change the key to the 3rd or the 5th and sing my harmony part over and over there then reference the lead to see where the lead went. Part of being a good harmony singer is to “remember” your part and sing it over the lead in the proper key. It’s cool though with all this technology that we can record it in a different key then sing our harmonies over that then upload the vocals…but are we shorting ourselves there in really being able to sing the proper harmonies in key of the progression? I think harmonies are “cool” in completing the triad and sound pretty nifty in Bluegrass/Folk and with further harmony studies I think it will help all of us come up with acceptable “breaks” that will work…I mean if you can sing harmonies you can play breaks by keeping the 3rd and 5th in mind also…so that should open up new ideas for most with their breaks and goes to show folks that if you are coming up with a break that your first note can be a 1,3, or 5 and it will work.
This song belongs to Fiddlewood/he suggested it, so I will let him act the composer and suggest where he’d like to hear my guitar part! So let me know Dave.
Think I came up with a suitable substitute mando rhythm, too. I’ll redo that and try to smooth out the ending at the same time.
Please disregard all previous work! 
— Begin quote from "ldpayton"
I think I figured out a trick, though. I took my basic mando tef tab and lowered it a third. Now, I can pipe that through my headphones along with the mix to keep me in line when I record.
— End quote
Did that work? I would have thought a few notes would be a half step off (but I don’t know that).
I was not waiting on Fiddle…Guitar Break is on Kompoz with click intro.
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
Did that work? I would have thought a few notes would be a half step off (but I don’t know that).
— End quote
Right, because I changed keys. I wasn’t looking for an exact note for note template to follow (I don’t think I had it tabbed exactly like Dave sang it anyway). I needed something to help me get started and to prevent me from drifting off to the melody parts.
I reuploaded the baritone part and another mixdown. I think it’s better, see what you guys think.
— Begin quote from ____
Larry I am no harmony singer but that is a good way to get your harmonies in the ball park. I simply either use a capo or transpose
— End quote
Do you put the capo around your throat or much lower down (that of course would get you soprano harmonies). Heh,heh, couldn’t resist it…
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
I would have thought a few notes would be a half step off.
— End quote
I think he adjusted when singing to the mix. I thought it would have a few notes off also. although I’ve figured harmonies out using triads on guitar before when i had trouble hearing the correct note and it always seemed to work.
Larry’s new mix is up as featured track, and I deleted a few of the extra idea tracks and such to clean things up a bit.
Jesse not sure why you were waiting on a fiddle track. The clicks work best to get things lined up I think.
What do you all think about leaving the end about like it is? Does it really need more?
Dave,
Um, was waiting on you to tell me where you’d like the guitar. You’re the composer here and figured I’d let you tell me where to stick the guitar part at…kind of like how geetar players tell the banjo guys where they can “stick it”! :mrgreen: …I just thought you may like to have it in a certain spot. I was thinking that with the potential of a fiddle and dobro, then the guitar and mando could lead the first half of the breaks then thye could be finished with a dobro or fiddle to help ramp the break up …guitar and mando are close cousins to each other and putting them together is fine, but I think splitting them with a fiddle, dobro, or even a banjo on the second half of any break helps get it thumping and free-style.
Ozi, I may have to try the throat capo… my wife would probably volunteer to attach it. 
When I switched keys with the tab, it did put a few notes a half step off, but all I needed was a general guide. I was trying to follow Dave’s lead, but that was causing me to want to sing the melody. I’d play the harmony notes on the mando and sing along a few times and think I had it, then as soon as I heard the melody and tenor, I’d get lost. Having the tab actually playing in the mix kept me on track.
I’m going to tackle a do-over on the mando track next, so I can move my break if needed, or we can change then ending if we want.
I was just thinking, this is a pretty cool little classroom we’ve got going. So many times at jam, I’ll miss a chord change, or otherwise get lost, and the jam just goes on - I don’t get a chance to figure out what I did wrong. Here, I get help from you guys figuring it out, and the chance to do it again. It’s a pretty valuable exercise. Almost like free lessons.
I’m not sure if Mikey is still with us and I was itching to hear Jesse’s guitar in the mix. So I uploaded mix idea3.
Nice stuff in that break, oldhat. It was so syncopated it was difficult to hear it until it was in the mix.
— Begin quote from "ldpayton"
Nice stuff in that break, oldhat. It was so syncopated it was difficult to hear it until it was in the mix.
— End quote
Thanks Larry, I knew you guys had some doubts about it and so did I until I matched it up with the first rough track and played it…it came out the way I wanted it to/what was in my head.
About syncopation:
Seems that when those 7th show up in a song like they do in this one then it’s time for some syncopation. 3/4 time or “Waltzes” can be a boring lot of songs…with the 7th’s added in to the progression they create some tension and this is a good time to mess around with syncopating ideas as this adds in tension or the “unexpected”. I know the general rule in music is to keep it simple and play stuff so that the listener can anticipate the next note coming up, but syncopation kind of messes with their head a bit and is fun.
I was figuring on having a guitar in 1/2 of each break and split with something else someone else plays.
Playing in the key of F is a real challenge for me on fiddle and I’ll be lucky to get the intro done and in tune. With the banjo doing as much back-up as it is I wasn’t planning on cutting a break. Besides I think there is plenty of ‘Dave’ in this recording already and want to keep it open to others contributions.
Jesse, your guitar seems to be very straightforward w/emphasis on the ones, nice break. Just wondering what you are describing as syncopated.
Hey Dave, good luck playing in F… you ought to get on whoever picked that key
I made a new mix. I know there was concern about the mando and GTR stepping on each other. I moved things around on the soundstage and I think it works fine with you all doubling. I think Larry had another rhythm part in the works, but I figure I’d mess with it a bit anyway. The lead gtr break is also on there. Nice job everyone. It’s coming together nicely.
kompoz.com/compose-collabora … tId=33855#
I think we can still add a baritone (third down) part up an octave (fifth up, I think it would start on F) and it would fill it out nicely. I think Jesse had volunteered for that. If we come up a half gtr break short, I have something in my head. I’m still hoping Ron or someone will jump in.
For what it’s worth, on the mixing I am running a “lite” version of Ableton. It has 8 tracks, so I am at a point where I will start combining track on my end. I am going to mix those in separate projects so I can still tweak them. It works fine, it just limits the real time mixing flexibility. One of these days I was going to get a full version of something. I don’t know if I will go with proTools, Ableton or something else.
I agree Mike, whoever picked this key should be made to listen to a banjo all day…oh yeah, already does…
Thought Larry’s voice could come up a bit in your last mix Mike.
Might try consolidating the two guitar breaks and any fiddle onto one track as they are all in different places and all lead parts.
Vocals could be mixed separately also. Gives more control on hearing how the voices match up and gives a nice ability to turn all vocals up or down against the music.
That should leave plenty of room. 
5th above vocal part would be really high, if anyone can reach it I’d be impressed!