Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Netgrass Collaboration #2

#121

I posted a mix of the base track and the bass track on Kompoz. My username there is DarthBrooks. I think I grabbed the wrong base track. I think i should have grabbed the working mix. Sorry about that. I was just doing it to get a feel of the bass with the guitar, but if anyone wants me to, I can go grab the other one and swap them out.

For some reason, the mp3 I downloaded of the bass sounded much noisier than as I was listening on Kompoz. I had a pretty noticeable hiss around 8k and above. Also, the attack sounded a bit over driven. Was that perhaps a line input using a undersaddle transducer (it sounds a bit like quack)? I played around with it to moderate those issues and in the process I ended up killing some of the cool organic sound of the UBass. It well could be the way I brought the clips into the project. I just dragged them in there (this was a first for me, importing clips instead of creating them). I think Larry will probably get better results. I didn’t do anything to the guitar track expect volume tracking for the silence before and after. At least I got some experience mixing from Kompoz.

A tip for any Ableton users out there. Be sure to disable “warp” on the tracks before bringing the clips in. Otherwise, you will have a very bad result. Ask me how I know :slight_smile:

I was curious, do the original tracks disappear from Kompoz after a certain time? I was thinking of pulling down the tracks for rider to make a disco re-mix :smiling_imp: , and there are only a couple tracks there.

#122

Larry got rid of some separate tracks to keep track of them better on rider.

Yes, Bass track has some noise going on in it that I noticed too. sounded like a bad cord or something…there are a couple notes that could use fixed but I think Larry can do it with his software if that’s OK with ozi.

The ticks disappeared on Mikes mix. not sure how to come in with the intro that way.

I see they are missing from the Bass track also.

I think It is best to leave them in and bounce them to any sep. track you record as it helps make it easy for whoever is mixing to line the different tracks up with each other correctly. In this particular case, I need them as a count into the intro.

I may just go ahead and use the scratch track for the intro stuff. It’s raining all day and night here so I’ll probably cut a couple things…

do we have anyone to do the rhythm?

#123

Sorry I missed the ticks. I didn’t know they were on the working mix until I posted it. They sure make syncing easier too. I was kind of “ear-balling” it. I suspect the ticks make a nice sharp wave form.

Until Larry gets back up and running, I did enough to know the process a bit, so if you need something put together, let me know. I liked the guitar idea track on there, but I wasn’t real sure where to put it.

#124

Well, 5 o’clock and no computer parts… looks like I’m waiting until Monday. Actually, I can probably figure out how to record my tracks by playing the scratch track on my laptop and recording on my music computer. My problem is my little on-board sound processor can’t handle playing multi-tracks. If you could mash up some tracks for us this weekend, Mike, that would let us get started, then I can take over once my computer is fixed.

I like the bass track now that it’s mixed, but it does have a sharp attack and quick release. I noticed it more on my laptop than with headphones. Crunching it pretty hard with a compressor would probably smooth it out, but that would bring up the background noise even more, and like you said, mask the organic sound of the bass. But then again, mixing is about making compromises.

Dave, I’m not sure about the rhythm guitar track. I was just waiting to see if Jesse or Ron wanted it, but I think it does need to be tracked before we start dropping in our vocals and lead work.

#125

Mike, that geeetar part on there is not ready/not in time, I just posted it to give others ideas of where I was going with my guitar part…I simply posted so others can hear a break I came up with - I know I always like to hear other folks breaks for stuff if I am stuck on a part or something…this helps me get through a part /provides me with ideas that I may be having trouble with.

On that break I really tried to go with a “grass” sound on the first half, then a “waltz” sound on the second half…if we have no instrument for an “outro” this may be better suited for that verses a break anywhere else.

Oldhat

#126

Just an idea.

I was thinking of doing fiddle (hopefully double fiddles) on the intro and outro and leaving the inner breaks and back-up to the other instruments.

Each person would just have to figure out what break they are going to take and we would be ready to go. with the click track there you could record to the scratch track if you wanted…the timing/meter won’t change as the rhythm and Bass will be playing to the same track.

I don’t have a problem mixing up to eight tracks here either, and can always bounce a couple together if needed, so I don’t see any reason to hold off uploading tracks.

#127

Damn, you picked up on the couple of wrong notes, huh? Couldn’t put any more time into it yesterday as had to get home (I was at the cave) so went with the last take to get something to you blokes for feedback.
I don’t have a problem with your playing with the bass track to iron out problems. Hopefully I’ll get a bit better at this with practice. I didn’t know how to put a click onto my track so tapped the bridge in time with the mix track at the intro, thought this might give you a reference point for the mixing - I could hear it fine in playback but maybe you didn’t realise that was what it was. I’ll try to work out how to put a click on - there’s a youtube howto video, just haven’t had the time yet.
The Ubass has a piezo pickup feeding direct into my Allen & Heath 10 track mixer then via a USB connection into my laptop. There shouldn’t be an issue with the guitar cable - it is a good one. I monitored my playing direct from the mixer. Hiss may be due to something in the mixer settings so I’ll see if I can improve that.
I’d be grateful for any suggestions you have about improving the recording and I’m happy to redo it - no guarantees I can improve the playing a lot though. The quick release (I assume you mean notes don’t sustain) is a characteristic of the instrument, if you haven’t seen one it is a baritone ukulele size with very fat polyurethane strings (here’s a photo of my actual ubass: http://www.roadtoadmusic.com/images/U-Bass_Acacia_RTM.jpg).
Has a more acoustic grainy sound than an electric but not as full as a double bass. Bit of a compromise but it’s great advantage is DB sound with portability (and cost). When I play Contradance music I use it for some tunes with a more folky sound but my fretless electric for tunes that need more sustain and cleaner sound.
When you say sharp attack, do you mean the actual sound or playing being ahead of the beat? In Mike’s mix I noticed a few spots where this happened, partly a problem in recording with monitoring bass playing through headphones while listening to scratch track with inbuilt laptop speakers. Also the strings are not as slippery as steels and your fingers can hang up a bit, so in trying to avoid this you can sometimes push the beat a bit.
Just read OH’s post, I recorded against Larry’s mix, so maybe timing is better.

#128

Also if I try recording with some different settings (eg lower input volume) is it worth while my putting a couple of versions up on kompoz so you can tell me which works best?

#129

Ozi, I think your track will work just fine unless you just want to do it again to try to optimize your setup. I think there is less background noise than we had on oldhat’s rhythm track last time.

When I mention attack and release I am talking about the note characteristics rather than your timing.

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Fast attack and quick release make it sound kind of punchy. It probably has more to do with your instrument’s characteristics and your recording setup than your playing.

#130

I don’t see a major problem with the current track ozi. I think in the future trying some lower input settings may help the noise issue.

there were only a couple notes where you went to playing a I, V type note pattern that I thought the V note ended up clashing with the chord pattern sort of like in the way I mentioned earlier in the thread. I’m not positive the notes were musically incorrect, they just clash a bit and could possibly be changed in pitch or downplayed a bit in the mixdown to smooth out the total sound of the track.

#131

— Begin quote from "ldpayton"

If you could mash up some tracks for us this weekend, Mike, that would let us get started, then I can take over once my computer is fixed.

— End quote

I’d be glad to do it. Be forewarned, I’ll be charging double what I did for the demo track I did for you. Just tell me what you want and use small words with lots of pretty pictures and I should be able to do it. I am getting ready to go eat, but I’ll check back in a bit. I take it at this point, what I need to assemble is the working mix and the bass track?

BTW, I want royalties of 25% of the CD sales and tour proceeds. And a Mini Cooper would be a nice touch. It’s not a requirement, but I’m just saying it would be appreciated.

I am also changing my name to something cool. MixMaster Miguel and DJ Darth are possibilities, but I have to check to ensure they aren’t already in use. I was gonna use “Snoop Lion” but that one got snatched up by some dude last week.

#132

yep, we just need a rhythm cut and have it mixed with the Bass w/clicks in front to have a working mix to start from.

#133

Man, I thought only the musicians got to be prima donnas. Now we gotta deal with Mixmaster Snoop Kitty’s ego.

— Begin quote from ____

yep, we just need a rhythm cut and have it mixed with the Bass w/clicks in front to have a working mix to start from.

— End quote

Guitar players are an unreliable lot, aren’t they?

#134

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I guess I’ll see what I can do…

#135

OH boy, get a bass track up and now it’s all on the geeetar players!

It’s funny how once you get a bass player then all you need is a guitar player and you have a band! The rest of you yahoo’s are “when needed”…that’s why I presume you guys are learning to play guitar as you want to be a bit more popular with the ladies. :laughing:

Hey Sir Mix-a-lot get to work!

Oldhat

#136

If I had known I would end up playing rhythm I would have cut the scratch vocals on another track…nothing so fun as doing something twice… :unamused:

Well, talk to you all when I’ve got something…

#137

Neil Young once told me, “A band that don’t fight, don’t play right.” So, I guess we’re getting somewhere, now!

#138

— Begin quote from "fiddlewood"

yep, we just need a rhythm cut and have it mixed with the Bass w/clicks in front to have a working mix to start from.

— End quote

I think I did that. It’s “Working Mix with Bass”
kompoz.com/compose-collabora … tId=33855#

I think I am already starting to detect some loss of fidelity that I would attribute to compression of compressed material. I think it won’t be a problem as the guitar track will be replaced (and that’s where I am hearing it). But I thought I would mention it since it came up in discussion before. With that said, I think anything that comes in as an mp3 should be kept to as few generations of compression as possible. On the bass track I found a “Maxwell Bass” stack that I liked what it did. It’s got a mixture of controls for compression, eq and what I would call fatness. If you tell me the time of notes that need to be corrected, I can patch them (as long as a similar note is played elsewhere).

Now that I am a big shot short time temporary sound engineer I have two tips to pass along:

  1. Several have mentioned it, but click tracks added to all incoming parts should simplify syncing.
  2. At the end of the song, let the note sustain much longer than what you think it needs. When you think it’s been long enough, just sit there another 5 seconds or so. That gives the option for fading as desired.

Thanks guys. I can tell already, you all are headed for the top. I gotta go meet with sony and get you guys a contract.
-DJ Snoop Kitty Mix-a-Lot

#139

haha KittyBoxMix must have done that while I was busy trying to figure out what to do with the tracks with no clicks in them.

Rhythm & lead vocals are uploaded.

I’m going to run a banjo back-up track. it can be used where we want and not used where ever anyone else wants to do some back-up, or dropped if it interferes with an instrumental break. I’ll leave it up to KittyBox & Larry.

#140

Well now: Hello Snoop Kitty - has a certain pink ring to it

— Begin quote from ____

If you tell me the time of notes that need to be corrected, I can patch them (as long as a similar note is played elsewhere).

— End quote

Usually the bassist is totally overlooked/ignored and noone ever notices the wrong notes. :wink:
SK, you are sure lucky that the others don’t play any wrong notes or you could have a heap of work ahead of you and would really be earning that 25%.

— Begin quote from ____

OH boy, get a bass track up and now it’s all on the geeetar players!

— End quote

Seems it’s been something like an air raid siren going off - I’ve noticed a sudden hectic scramble to join the action. Not saying that the bass player is the driving force but …