Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Lets do a collaboration

#41

Guess we haven’t really discussed the order of the lead breaks. My only suggestion would be that we separate the two guitar breaks. We could sandwich the banjo and mandoln between the two guitar breaks, or alternate the guitar breaks.

The song doesn’t really have a chorus, but I was intending for a break between each verse, like this.

Intro/“I know you rider” verse/Break 1/“Lay down last night” verse/Break 2/“The sun will shine” verse/Break 3/“Wish I was a headlight” verse/Break 4/“I know you rider” verse/Ending.

Each verse section is exactly the same as each break section. Take out the intro and the ending and the song just loops nine times - 5 times for verses, 4 times for breaks.

I haven’t thought too much about the vocals other than oldhat’s suggestion that we do the first and last verse in harmony and divide up the other three. If you, Ron and Jesse want to do the middle verses, I’m happy just harmonizing.

#42

I had the same thoughts on the breaks. I’m having a real time trying to come up with anything I like for a break at this speed on the banjo so, take your choice when you record mando and I’ll take the other.

I just checked out vocals and I can hit any of five parts so I’ll wait and see what everyone is comfortable with and fill in the holes.

I couldn’t quite hear what to do on the intro so cam in before the singing with the Bass. If you guys would rather I change it let me know, it’s not a problem.

#43

Don’t matter which one i sing if any at all and don’t care where the geetar lead break comes in. Is up tot you guys to take what you want and like fiddlewood I can sing about any of the verses…well let me re-phrase that “I can attempt to sing any of the verses”…will head over to Kompoz and see what the latest sounds like!

Oldhat

#44

Man I do not like the way my Martin records, is different sounding through my recording device that I use vs. what my ear hears. I can record that intro with a different guitar and see if it sounds better if you guys want me to. I mean the low E, A, D, And G sound OK, but it seems that it’s really bright on High E and B. I might get some heavier low E and B strings and put on there for future purposes, High E is .013 and the B is a 0.17 may have to go as high as a 0.15 on the high E. Any setup or set of strings you guys can recommend for to get rid of how “bright” they are when recording?

Oldhat

#45

I suspect your recording setup has more to do with the sound of your track than your strings do. One thing I noticed about your recording is that it didn’t have much head room above the signal. Your recording was running close to peak levels quite a bit of the time. There could be a small amount of distortion being generated there. Decreasing your input signal or moving the mic a little further away from your guitar might mellow the tone a bit.

I understand if you want to tinker with your sound and get a more accurate representation of how your guitar sounds, but I also think your recording will work fine just as it is. Remember our project is a really raw mash-up right now. I have several tools available to smooth things out. I haven’t worried with the faders, compression, EQ, or panning yet, since we’re in such a state of flux right now.

#46

Bass part is onsite. let me know if you all want me to change anything.

#47

YeeHaw! That sounds good. I uploaded two working versions, one with the scratch rhythm still in the mix, one with it completely removed. My wife is already asleep so I had to mix with headphones. Made it hard to know how much bass I got in there, but if it’s out of balance I’ll fix it tomorrow.

#48

Got up around 3:30 to wrestle my boy out of bed to go fishing, said he wanted to sleep in instead… so with a quiet house and my old lady out of town I figured it’d be a good time to do the guitar rhythm portion over a cup of coffee…so I did and tossed it up on Kompoz.

The best one I came up with was uploaded over to Kompoz, however it just so happens to be on that I missed the ending…so there will be no guitar in that ending, other instruments should make up the difference.

Nice bass line, will be really interesting with the guitar rhythm, mando comping/vamping, and with a banjo added in. Will Def have to be some fills added to this with all instruments as it’s a long song of the same stuff over and over so some fills will add to it.

Guitar part is Ok, it could have been better, but most of the time in bluegrass you don’t get to hear a lot of the guitar rhythm, but instead only hear the guitar fills so once it is put together it should work just fine…at least I am hoping.

Oldhat

#49

Mighty fine, Jesse! I just uploaded a new mixdown. Between your guitar and Dave’s bass, we’ve got a good foundation for our project.

Your signal wasn’t nearly so hot this time, but unfortunately the signal-to-noise ratio wasn’t as good either. I’m not sure what you changed with your setup, but about half of what you did would probably be ideal.

I’ll work on recording a mando chop today. We can layer in lead breaks and vocals any time, too. I’m not sure exactly how to approach the vocals. I’ve never tried to do a long distance harmony before. It’s hard to know where our voices naturally fall, and who should be doing which parts. Any suggestions, guys?

#50

Probably the hardest vocal part to do is the lead on the parts where there is harmony, as everything else depends on it.

How about we just go Larry, Jesse, then Dave: each just singing the next part that is supposed to be sung?

That would put Larry on lead for the first harmonies and Jesse and I could sing harmony if Jesse is comfortable with that.
then Jess would sing the first Verse…and so on…
It would end up with me doing lead on the last part and you guys could handle harmony.

This is iff we use three part harmonies. I can always throw in a fourth part if you guys want that sound.

OH Pooh! I forgot Ron…RON, Sorry, it’s been a few pages since I read ya,did you have a certain verse you wanted to sing? we can just do the same order with you on whatever verse you want if all are agreeable…

#51

will you be playing a mando back-up through any of the verses? If you let me know which ones it will help me start figuring out my banjo…haha, I got the feeling I’m gonna crash & burn on this one…

#52

Larry all I did was move the mic about 4 ft away to record that. If you think there is to much outside noise to end up with a good project when finished then I can go back and record again. It would only take a few minutes, plus i may be able to add in the last part…is up to you, you are the one putting it together.

And yes, the sound I am getting from the mic is it, I grabbed to other “deeper” tone guitars and gave the rhythm a go with them and they were bright also.

Harmony will be tough over a distance I say we try it then if it does not work then we re-do the “main” verse that is repeated twice with individuals singing them.

Oldhat

#53

Jesse, If the lead part is on key and sung fairly straight harmonies shouldn’t be hard at all. They just need to be done in a specific order:
lead
1/3rd above (tenor)
next is baritone (1/3 blow lead) or high baritone (1/5 above lead)
In absence of or n addition to hi bari you can then add low tenor (1/5) below lead) or Bass (can vary on how it is done)

What makes good harmony harder for many folks is when the lead move up or down out of his part into the next one or the tenor jumps up onto the 5th above. This forces the baritone singer to cross over the others part to get in between the two voices in order to complete the chord. It can be (and is) done quite often but it is very much a learned skill.

JD Crowe & Sonny Osborne have used crossing over extensively with great taste on many of their recordings. Sometimes it is only for one or two words but it really defines the “sound” of the chorus.

One example would be on The old home place. the words “plow in the” are a cross-over by J.D. Its super smooth but it is there and 90% of the people who sing the song miss it.

wow, guess I got a bit long winded ther…

#54

Okay, I added a mandolin chop and just uploaded a new mix. We’re getting enough tracks that I panned them a bit this time.

Fiddlewood, I played mando through the entire song, but I can drop it back into the mix if it gets in the way of the banjo or if things get too cluttered in any one section (and of course, during the mandolin break). We don’t have the advantage of playing together in real time, so I’ll try to make post-recording adjustments with the faders.

Oldhat, I think maybe 2 feet away would be perfect for your mic. No need to re-record as far as I’m concerned. Just figured we might as well zero in on the optimal setup for you for future recordings.

Here’s some info that might be of value to you guys. The times are for the one beat of the section, so if you have leading notes you’ll need to back up a bit.

Verse 1 - 0:26 sec
Break 1 - 0:49 sec
Verse 2 - 1:12
Break 2 - 1:36
Verse 3 - 1:59
Break 3 - 2:22
Verse 4 - 2:45
Break 4 - 3:08
Verse 5 - 3:31

I’ll try to work on some scratch vocals next. I’m interested to see how our harmony singing works out.

#55

Haha that is starting to take shape. Sounds good with the mando added in…is a “hoot”…a “hoot-n-nanny” to be exact…all we need is a jug and a jaw harp!

I can sing Harmony, but typically I can only do it after really hearing the other singer several times over on a song. Like you said fiddlewood…the crossing over is difficult and to me I can only pick it up after practice over the lead. Guess most of the time I will sing a “half-assed” harmony and land on a lot of the same notes as the lead.

Is a skill I need to develop a little more so I will give it a go and actually do a little practice once Larry sings lead on the common verse. I can tend to cancel out other music and singing going on through years of playing and to me this is a benefit in singing harmony as I really have to ignore what else is going on…will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I think we all have unique voices, I’ve got that “hillbilly drawl” in my voice, Larry has that midwest type voice, and you have that traditional country voice (Listened to “How Blue are You”)…so we all have real unique and different voices and it’s gonna be interesting to see what turns up. I have yet to hear Ron’s voice singing so who know’s, he may be the one to sing the baritone or the tenor.

#56

When I asked about playing backup on mando I meant picking behind the singing and throwing in back-up licks. I would want to know where tha would happen because I would play a different back-up on banjo (vamp).

I would suggest working on the vocals before the back-up instruments. It would be easier to keep track of when/what we should be playing (for me anyway). I have four different types of back-up to play depending on what is in front in the mix so I’ll probably cut the banjo track last so I’;m not stepping on anyone. I’ve 'bout numbed my hands and arms for the day already figuring out banjo riffs. :unamused:

#57

many times I will record my own lead voice and then cut harmony tracks. It is great practice, and I find a lot of mistakes in my own lead singing when I go to put tenor to it. Same happens when I cut the bari part. I learn a lot about control (still have way more to learn) doing this.

#58

— Begin quote from "fiddlewood"

When I asked about playing backup on mando I meant picking behind the singing and throwing in back-up licks. I would want to know where tha would happen because I would play a different back-up on banjo (vamp).

— End quote

Ha! At 250 bpm, I was just hanging on to chunk out some chords. I figured I could always come back with some fill licks later if I wanted, anyway.

#59

Think I will cut the 3rd verse and lead on the last one. I’ll have it for you in a bit. 10 minutes singing and three hours uploading…haha

#60

I just uploaded a mix without the vocal cues, if that helps for doing your vocals.