Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Lets do a collaboration

Hey Larry and Others,

Let’s do a collaboration on a song and get the others to chip in either a verse or a lead break. I know you had a site where you referenced in the past where you could do that. I am not able to do good video and audio but could send a decent audio file to kick in.

I been working on “I know You Rider” by the Grateful Dead in a bluegrass up-tempo arrangement and coming up with a simple lead break.

Let me know who is interested, but I’d rather see Larry head it up as he probably has the best knowledge in putting it all together. I think it would be cool to do this and throw it up here on the site.


Ok, I done a quick recording on a hand held recorder…opened it in Windows Movie Maker, added in a picture of the Nashville Sky, uploaded it to youtube and linked it here…amazing what an old dog can learn in an hr if he puts his mind around it!

It’s a rough version but it’s a start, recording is actually sloppy/mistakes but it will do to start as a reference point. It would be cool to get a few breaks such as mando, banjo, fiddle, dobro, bass, etc. backing, etc. I know we’d have to record each individual part then mix it in Audacity or something?


We’d need someone to sing also as I am not much of a singer. Hell we could all do a verse.



Id like to possibly be part of it …let me know how its gonna work and ill give it a go …thanks !!!

Nice job, oldhat - I’m in!

I did some collaborating with fiddlewood and TravisCT (who I haven’t seen around in a while) a while back over on Kompoz. Here’s my page, and here’s fiddlewood’s

I still have an unfinished version of Whiskey Before Breakfast on my page. I worked up a dobro break for it a few months ago and just about had it down cleanly enough to record when I got sidetracked by other songs.

I guess it would be helpful to know who all might want to join in on I Know You Rider before we structure the song. That way we can know how much space to leave for lead breaks.

If needed, I can add guitar, mandolin and maybe dobro. I can also do an okay bass line with my Tele and an effects box if we don’t get a real bass player (hint, hint, Dave). I’m also willing to embarass myself by singing… who knows, maybe we can work out some decent harmonies. Sharing vocal duties is a good idea. I’m pretty sure that’s how the Dead did it, anyway.

Some cool versions of the song on Youtube. Here’s a nice one by the Seldom Scene.

I’m in.

Yeah Larry I can do the bass. The rest I’ll wait and see what we need. I’m happy to do any of the vocals that are left over or banjo if need be. Just let me know.

Well then what are some ideas on how to put it together, I’ll throw in my little guitar break, some backing for guitar and a vocal part. I assume for those of us that do not have recording equipment that we’d need to record them all separate then email them to WHO? You Larry? If so, share your email and what file type you prefer.

I was doing the song pretty simply, or a “stupidified” version, G, F, and C are the only chords used…you wanna spice it up or keep it simple for the rhythm?

So how should we structure it? We have 4 so far who else is in?


if you record the separate parts in either mp3 or wav format you should be able to upload them right to this forum and then Larry could grab em from here.

If you have any issues getting the files uploaded give me a holler.

I’ve never tried playing it in G before - I’ve always used D or E, but it sounds more high and lonesome in G - I kind of like it. I usually throw in a Bb chord when I play it, but I’m flexible.

Sonar is the program I use for multi-tracking and mixing. Once we know who all is contributing, I can lay out a basic boom-chuck guitar rhythm with the metronome as a template, then have Dave drop in the bass, Once we have that, I can fade out the basic guitar as we build the track around the bass.

We could use this site to upload the tracks, but Kompoz has a nice platform for hosting the project, and everyone involved would have easy access to all the tracks whenever they wanted. They have a free membership available.

Let’s see… so far we have oldhat and ronfold for guitar, fiddlewood for bass and the potential to add in some mando, dobro, and banjo if no one else jumps in. If we get enough people who want to participate, I’ll be happy to just act as engineer/producer, too.

Larry your avatar has a pic of you with a mando in your lap, so we are expecting a mando break from you!

Well I guess I will go sign up for Kompoz and wonder around there for the rest of the evening til it’s time to bed down to learn a few things.

Yeah let’s do it out of G and keep it simple, if others can’t sing out of there or do not want to play a fiddle or mando out of there then I will gladly change…“High and lonesome” hunh…if you sing like I do then they all sound high and lonesome!

Only thing I can record with is my handheld digital, kind of sounds like the guitar is running through a phalanger or something when I record with it but I hope it is good enough.


Yup, the mando would be on Larry unless we have other volunteers, I don’t own one.

I agree with Larry that we would want to start with a scratch rhythm track (with two measure count-in). Also it would be good to write out the arrangement for reference.

Here are all the lyrics I know:

— Begin quote from ____

I know you rider, gonna miss me when I’m gone
I know you rider, gonna miss me when I’m gone
Gonna miss your baby, from rolling in your arms

I’d rather drink muddy water, sleep in a hollow log
I’d rather drink muddy water, sleep in a hollow log
Than stay here in Frisco, be treated like a dog

Lay down last night, Lord, I could not take my rest
Lay down last night, Lord, I could not take my rest
My mind was wandering like the wild geese in the West

The sun will shine in my back door some day
The sun will shine in my back door some day
March winds will blow all my troubles away

I wish I was a headlight on a north-bound train
I wish I was a headlight on a north-bound train
I’d shine my light through the cool Colorado rain

I know you rider, gonna miss me when I’m gone
I know you rider, gonna miss me when I’m gone
Gonna miss your baby, from rolling in your arms

— End quote

If we left room for a break between each verse, that’s five lead breaks -probably more than enough.

What about tempo? Seems like the song gets played a lot of different speeds. Oldhat’s demo seems like it’s at a pretty nice pace to me.

UPDATE: I set up the project page over on Kompoz.

Ok guys,

I went and joined Kompoz for the $5.00 a month, liked how you could upload a multitude of files and such and figured what the heck it’s $5.00.

I uploaded my guitar lead break onto the project on your page Larry. I know I will probably have to re-do it once we get the timing/bass line down but figured “what the heck” it’s a start and it will be there for you guys to reference on where I am going with the lead break for the guitar.

In my video I posted on here I had a “lead in” kind of intro, do we want to add that in or someone else add one in with another instrument? I am a big lead in intro type guy, as you guys know when jamming most are talking and acting a fool and a lead in typically tells them that something is about to go down and to get ready.

Well it’s started, so now I guess we just have to structure it, please remember when it comes to putting all this together I am an idiot so you may have to spell things out for me. I will however enjoy the learning part.

I say we all try to do some harmonizing on the “I know you Rider” verses then maybe 3 individuals do a verse on their own…just an idea, but if we have 5 guys wanting to sing then we can do them all individually. I had never heard the “Hollow Log” verse before Larry.

I already downloaded your demo from Youtube, Jesse. I used it as a template to set up the project. With 6 verses and 5 breaks -and at roughtly the same speed as your demo- it works out to about 4 minutes.

I was figuring on using your intro, too. We’ll have the metronome to count you in, then I can just hit the one beat with the scratch rhythm to help guide you into the first verse. I can also add the metronome to the scratch rhythm during the intro if you would like.

I’ve got everything set up and ready to record a starting track, but the wife’s got laundry going right now, so I’ll need to wait until the house is quieter.

Here’s a chord chart of how I have the song set up.
[attachment=0]I Know You Rider.pdf[/attachment]
Feedback is welcome.

Nice chart Larry. (how do they do that?)

Song chart looks great, you the man!

Will be waiting on you to get a quiet house and will add my intro once you throw your part together.

I will likewise sing a verse and the common verse and add that to Kompoz.

Any others gonna join in for this learning experience? All of you guys are welcome to join in, the more the merrier!


your post sounds like you are thinking of just recording and then handing it off to Larry. I don’t want to hurt you feelings but we have to wait for Larry to finish what he is doing first
Once we have the scratch rhythm track recorded we can cut a scratch vocal if we want just to keep track of the arrangement.

 I would suggest finishing the rhythm section then, or at least the  Bass & Guitar Rhythm. And let Larry mis it down.

that way we can all download the rhythm version to practice with for vocals, inst. leads, and back-up riffs.

hope this makes sense…It’s hard to take a random recording and try to fit it into an existing one and it makes hours of extra work for Larry if he can even do it. I know I can’t. It works much easier to record while playing with the existing recording that Larry will provide.

If I misunderstood your post and you understand all this I apologize. Just trying to save wasted efforts.


Can’t wait to see what you guys come up with.

Maybe I can join in on the next one when I get some recording equipment.

Nope, no problem fiddlewood, was gonna wait on Larry to do his thing then go from there.

Correct me if I am wrong as I am learning, but my intentions are to wait on the rhythm portion. I will then take that, play a lead break that is in time with it, do an intro that is in time with it, from there Larry will put it together. I think I can add in sync tones if need be via Audacity, or some other program. Then once every one has a master copy of the song with breaks and lead parts then we can do our singing part to it?

That’s what I was thinking.

Yes I have messed with audacity a bit a few years back, it can be time consuming. Anything you guys want to throw my way that is time consuming then let me know as I have plenty of time and if I don’t know it then I can learn it.

Also for you guys that understand this better than I do, then please explain it along the way so others that may decide to do this have a page to reference as a learning tool. I mean for example on the individual tracks, at what point are they still just individual tracks? I mean to take the rhythm section and merge it as a single track with say, bass, rhythm guitar and various fills and then turn it into a single track then only add in lead breaks as tracks over it, then singing, etc or are they all always individual tracks?

Okay, I’ve got a scratch rhythm track uploaded at Kompoz. I think it will function pretty well as a template for the bass track. The beginning was kind of hard to follow without Oldhat’s intro, so I dubbed in a piece of his demo track at the start. After that, it’s just the simplest rhythm played as tightly to the metronome as I could manage. I did insert a few vocal cues to help you find your way.

The intro chords I had on the pdf aren’t exactly what I wound up playing, and I removed the muddy water verse because the song was getting too long. Otherwise I followed the chord chart exactly.

Once the bass is done, I’ll re-mix with the scratch guitar dropped way back, and we can insert some more interesting guitar work.