Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Wooden laser beams, and other questions on tone

For reference in this discussion listen to the Intermediate lessons for "blackberry blossom " and “Cherokee shuffle” what is the mandolin(brand and model) used in these videos?

So my question is about tone and different brand’s sounds. I currently play an eastman MD 304. I like it’s dry woody low end tone. I have the banjo ben store tone gaurd and string suppressors on it. I like the sound, but looking to upgrade in the future, and get something with a little more high end tone to it. But like all of us, I’m searching for that magical tone, my White Buffalo.

If u listen to the two songs i referenced, blackberry blossom in particular, the tone of this thing sounds like wooden laser beams. It’s a dry metallic lick sound that really stands out on this instrument than almost all the others on other videos. Does that make sense? I’m sure u get it. Anyway. @BanjoBen, My question is, is that sound more the instrument, or the recording equipment, or something else?
I understand that add ons, pick choice, string choice and technique can alter an instruments tone a good deal, but my MD 304 A style oval hole is not gonna shoot wooden laser beams. So when purchasing a new mandolin, what should I look for to try and get close to that tone?
Does the finish on the mandolin make a difference at all? What about brand? Is a Lore more likely to have that high end cluck than a Northfield or Kentucky? What about how the inside is constructed? How close can I get to that sound with a price point of $1000. Any opinions from anyone would be appreciated.

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Hey James!
I know what you mean, yet I’m not sure what exactly to say to ‘what to look for’ to achieve the wooden laser beams (love that description :grin:). All the things you mentioned do affect tone to a point, so does setup. And mandos even of the same make and model each have their own ‘voice’. My best advice (& yall know I’m no expert here), would be to go somewhere and play/try out as many mandos as you possibly can. You’ll start to hone in on what exactly you like, or don’t. There aren’t really any stores near us with anything other than very basic beginner mandos. We were up in Nashville last Oct and had the opportunity to go to Carter’s and I played a ton of different mandos there. Some were in the extremely high end price range, some mid range. I learned that the ones I preferred for tone and playability (as it pertains to my playing) were not the highest priced. I was not looking to buy that trip, just a kid in the candy store having a great day… Best luck in finding those wooden laser beams​:slightly_smiling_face: and having fun in the search!!

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Do u know what model and brand he used in that video? We have a store here that had a very small selection of Kentucky and Lore but they weren’t set up well and just didn’t play well. I know I want f holes and not an oval, and an f-style, but does a shiny or flat lacquer change sound at all in your opinion? What about type of wood used? Is one deeper toned than another in your experience?

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Nope not really sure, but my guess is the Rattlesnake mando because… if you go back in time to the lessons around red Haired Boy, & salt creek, (11 yrs ago) you see the Rattlesnake & he talks about it in those vids. Around the same time (11 yrs ago) there also is a Gibson (old joe clark) with no white binding on the headstock and the pearly tuner knobs have the screw sticking out of the end of the button. The rattlesnake on the other hand, has white binding around the headstock and no screws sticking out of the pearly tuner knobs. Both have a similar flowerpot inlay. I think I saw Rattlesnake in old rugged cross too, based on those descriptions. Could be totally wrong also… anyone else have any ideas? @BanjoBen would know…
Newer videos have been mostly Northfields.

Both my mandos have a non shiny finish. I just prefer it. I heard somewhere it makes a difference in sound but I honestly don’t know. My Northfield F5S has Adirondack Spruce and Red Maple with niteocellulose lacquer finish. My TKD Falcon has Spruce (don’t know which kind) & Maple, with an oil finish. The Northfield is a much more precise instrument and is very obvious when playing it, ease/tone of playing, esp. up the neck. The TKD though it’s a ‘lesser’ instrument can hold its own and sounds great down the neck and loud for chops. Up the neck is more difficult to play on it though, and not as pretty sounding as the North. I enjoy and use them both regularly. Other than that I have a very beginner mass produced Ibanez A with some not so good qualities that goes on ‘wilderness trips’, haha! So not much “experience” in these things to pass on. Hope some of this helps though!

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Hey James! I just looked at those lessons and it looks like his Gibson F5-G. You can hear it alongside a few others in his Northfield Big Mon Mandolin Review video (would post the link but I’ve got terrible service right now LOL)

As far as the factors which affect the instrument’s tone… there are many and I’m not a mando expert by any means, but I think one very influential factor is the top wood. I recently played two Big Mons side by side, one having an Engelmann top and one Adirondack. The Adi one had much more projection and overall strongness and punch to my ear. Engelmann mandolins usually have been more mellow in my experience, though I’ve never actually set out to demo a lot of mandolins and make note of their different tones (Guitarist primarily, not mandolinist).

Simone has it right. To find that one you really wanna buy, you need to play (possibly a lot) of mandolins, and the more you can demo side by side the more easy it will be to pick a fave. Though, one may make it so clear that you’ll just know it’s what fits you best (that recently happened to me with a Santa Cruz guitar that connected with my playing like no other new guitar has up to this point… I now know what I want to try more of!)
I recommend looking for some stores with the ones you might be interested in stop by if you’re ever traveling through one of those areas. If you go to jams/festivals, you’ll probably make bluegrass friends and you can ask to try out their instruments as well.

All the best on your mando search!

Michael

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I guess I’m gonna have to break down and go play some to really make a good decision. Any good suggestions of where to go in Nashville to shop around? I’m from Knoxville, just a few hours away. We have a local bluegrass association here that plays once week so maybe I should go and see what’s up.

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You’re in the right state, haha!
Definitely check out Carter Vintage Guitars and Gruhn Guitars, those are the two that first come to mind… I’m sure others have great suggestions as well.

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That’s my Gibson F5-G that I received from Gibson about 2007 as a Gibson endorsed artist along with an RB-3 Wreath banjo and Phil Leadbetter reso guitar. That was quite a day, lol.

Yeah I know what you mean.

Yep, haha. It really is all of those variables. I made a video for you this morning:

Now that I listen back to that, that mando sounds pretty darn good! I’ve thought about selling this mandolin, either it or the Rattlesnake. I don’t need all 3 of them.

Also keep in mind that I don’t have a tone-gard on this mandolin, but I also didn’t have it on the mandolin in the videos you reference. A Tone-gard would really light this thing up.

I think Eastman and Kentucky both can get pretty close to this sound but it’ll be over $1,000. Northfield will of course get there. Yes, you need to play some mandos. Get over to Gruhn or Carters and see what you think.

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@BanjoBen Here’s a reply video. It was early here too, haha, so sorry for the bland monotone. Thanks again for the help. Here’s a link to the private part of the airport (the video will explain)
https://www.signatureflight.com/locations/tys

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Video says it’s set to private and I can’t watch it…please change the permissions to unlisted or public and I can see it, thanks!

I think it’s fixed now.

Awesome! Thanks for the invite!

I have actually flown a couple times into the downtown island airport but I’ll have to come see the trucks! Having an invite to see airport fire trucks is the best way to see them…if you’re going to see them. Haha.

Here’s a vid I made flying into Knoxville:

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Haha no kidding, u don’t wanna see us like this (or forget to put your wheels down) :arrow_heading_down: great video!

Dude, they say there are two groups of retrac pilots: Those who have gear-upped a landing and those that will do it one day.

Scares me to death.

How was that thing? Most of them had lots of issues. I have a friend with one that sounds great.

I don’t know what kind of issues they had, but mine is awesome. I am about to sell it because we’re moving and I’m trying to thin the herd of stuff I don’t get to play enough. I got to go into Gibson and have their luthiers pick out their personal favorites for me to have, so mine are pretty special.

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I’ve never seen a bad one but apparently there were issues with them that made Phil not want his name on them because of inconsistency. I think he went to RK for a signature model before he passed.

He sure did, and they’re great. I sell a lot of those. I didn’t know why Phil switched.

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If it eases the mind at all, the pilot and his passenger where absolutely fine, not a scratch. And the plane, other than the propeller, actually looked good. The undercarriage wasn’t even ate up or heavily damaged. Once we hoisted it up he actually was able to drop gear and be tugged off the runway. I’m sure it was still totalled out, but safety wise he was okay. Funny enough he said he was just taking in the beautiful day and mountains and didn’t have a care in the world. I found it interesting that having a good day is just as dangerous as having a bad day when flying. Felt bad for the dude. Had over 50yrs of experience between him and passenger in the cockpit. He was embarrassed but very much alive and well.

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Yep, can get anybody. I’m sure he had to overhaul the engine…that was probably a $70k mistake.

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