Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

What is the typical bpm for slow, moderate and fast bluegrass tempos?

Your POV on this: In your typical bluegrass jam with experienced (but not necessarily pro) players, what kind of beats per minute range is the generally expected for each of these tempos? Thanks.

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Check this out, and you will get a good idea… http://www.mandolin.myzen.co.uk/speed.html

Well I’m no jammer but here’s my personal opinion

Slow- 50-90
moderate 90-130
Fast 130+

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I never think in terms of speed, I play at a speed I feel is comfortable for my skill level and which sounds right.

I start out learning the tune really slow using TablEdit it as an aid (reading & listening). I practice till I feel I can play most of the tune fairly clean then I’ll raise the speed in 5bpm increments, This helps me identify the trouble spots, I then Isolate these and work on those trouble spots separately. Then I go back to practicing the tune till I can play the whole thing cleanly, There after it’s all about how it feels and sounds.

I sometimes use a metronome to practice roll exercises, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uy4tgM_Rfg However I find it better to use TablEdit to practice tunes. I add guitar & bass TAB to help me maintain good timing.

Many TAB books will give an indication of speed by a printed quarter note in the top left corner followed by a number in brackets.

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That’s probably technically correct. I tend to think… Slow - 50-120
Moderate 120-150
Fast 150+ :joy:

Interesting question! If I had to guess, I probably tend to not think about speed/tempo as much as I do what the song feels like… different feelings of groove etc, I guess. A little hard to know what that feels like without doing it a bunch, but you can definitely tell when a song is too fast or slow for the feel you want.

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I think certain songs can sound somewhat fast even when they’re not. For example, Ricky Skaggs Highway 40 Blues. I was learning it the other day while listening to the recording and it felt like it was a decently fast song. Not a difficult tempo or anything, it just felt like it moved along at a pretty good pace. I learned Russ’s solo and played it along with the recording through earbuds and it felt decently fast while I was doing it. But the recording I got of just the banjo sounds pretty slow. I thinks that’s why I play too fast a lot of times, music sounds faster when it’s a whole band. Might just have to do with the feel of the song.

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You can be playing with a band, at the exact same BPM measured by a metronome, but still sound out of time with the other people. The feel of the music comes not only from the tempo, but where in the beat you strike the note. You can attack a note before a metronome would hit, or after.

I’ve played along with recordings and metronomes and many times have been in time fine with it, not losing the tempo, but stopped playing and realized that the band definitely sounded like it was playing faster than I was… probably sometimes I was just dragging bc my timing’s bad, but the drive/groove concept most likely has a part in that effect too.

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True, I saw a video where Russ Carson said you have to let the music breathe. It rarely sounds right for everyone to be playing exactly at a metronome beat. I’ve found that my multi track recordings turn out better when I listen to a recording and not a metronome.

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I feel like a related question is at what point do I feel I can play a song at a typical jam tempo. I don’t think in BPM at a jam bit I do when I practice. I’m sure the numbers above are pretty good. I’d target some of those and then try to Olay along with a recording of the song instead of a backing track.

So let’s say you’re playing a solo consisting of exclusively eighth notes to a tune being played at 90 bpm. You’re essentially playing that solo at a tempo of twice that, or 180 bpm? Is that correct?

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yes

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I tend to think the reverse stroke does not count as a beat. I don’t know.

If you have your metronome set at 90bpm and your playing a solo full of 8th notes, you’re playing 180 beats for every minute. if your solo lasts that long. tecnically it’s still 90bpm but to answer Timmys question I think you’re right.

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But isn’t quarter note a beat and not an eighth note? Bit confusing though.

OK. Let’s see if anyone else pitches in.

Yes (and you’re also technically playing the solo at 45, 360, 720, and 184,320 BPM).
The way we determine the tempo you’re playing at is affected by whether you set it to a half note, a quarter, etc. So if you play at 100 BPM (half note gets one beat), you’re also playing at 200 BPM (quarter note gets one beat).

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OK I checked Irish Washerwomen in 6/8 timing (or 3/4??)

The metronome ticks 1 strike per second and completes 1 measure. Which is equivalent to 60 bpm. However, the song tempo shows 180 bpm. So, I take it that the 3 beats in the measure triples up the tempo to a 180 bpm. So, it appears an up and down stroke together constitutes a beat in this case.

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4/4 = 4 Beats in the Bar (Measure) - If there are 8 8th notes in the bar it’s still 4 Beats. if there are 16 16th notes in the bar it’s still 4 Beats if the are 32 32nd notes in the bar it’s still 4 Beats

My understanding is the duration of the notes in the measure do not determine the BPM - It is the frequency of the beat is determined by how fast you Play the Beat

In a bluegrass band ‘our drum’ is the Bass Fiddle bass

To The Bang of the Drum

Compare these two videos - LISTEN to how fast the BASS Drum is played, believe it or not they are both playing in 4/4 timing 4 Beats in the Bar The meter (speed) of the pace of the march is determined by the beat of the BASS Drum - Typically the snare drums will play much faster but the pace is set by the bass drum.

And in the case of the British Army - The Word of Command by the Officer on Parade or the Band Master’s Mace. Whether it be Quick, Slow or Double Quick Time

British Army quick marching pace is 120 paces to the minute - 120 BPM point__laugh

The British Light Infantry quick marching pace is 140 paces to the minute - !40 BPM point__laugh

Now compare it to the SLOOOW MARCH

This next video starts off in SLOW TIME then changes pace to QUICK TIME - LISTEN to the BASS DRUM - It’s still 4/4 4 Beats to the bar. Remember it’s the frequency of the beat is determined by how fast you Play the Beat ---- BANG THE DRUM

British Army SLOW marching pace is 60 paces to the minute - 60 BPM point__laugh

Further Study - Check out @Mr_G Music Theory Course

https://banjobenclark.com/courses/introduction-to-music-theory?from_track=beginner-banjo

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It’s not really about beats, the number of beats doesn’t change the fact that he’s playing 180 notes per every minute he plays.