If you take a major guitar chord shape, such as the F barre chord shape, is it true that the scale pattern will be the same no matter where on the fret board you make the barre chord?
I realize the individual notes will be different based on the scale (ie: where you are on the fretboard) but the pattern itself seems to remain the same anywhere. Anybody confirm?
And would that be the same for the C shape and A shape chords?
If so, that’s pretty cool.
Sounds like you got it right to me. Just memorize the pattern for each chord shape and you’ve got a good start on mapping the fretboard. Thinking about scales out of chord shapes helps if you’re trying to outline the chord progression while you play a break, also.
You got it. Also the scale pattern will contain, in the case of the key of F, patterns of the chords F, Bb, C or in the key of G patterns of G, C, D.
Sounds like the next step is arpeggios (or notes of the chords played around the neck) When Ben gets his family stuff sorted out, maybe an arpeggio lesson/exercises for Gtr and Mando. They are a great way to build solos and get your self out of a jam when playing a tune you dont really know to well.
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You got it. Also the scale pattern will contain, in the case of the key of F, patterns of the chords F, Bb, C or in the key of G patterns of G, C, D.
Sounds like the next step is arpeggios (or notes of the chords played around the neck) When Ben gets his family stuff sorted out, maybe an arpeggio lesson/exercises for Gtr and Mando. They are a great way to build solos and get your self out of a jam when playing a tune you dont really know to well.
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I just read Ben’s post about his dad’s health issues and pray that his dad will recover. My dad has been through a tough year and I know how trying that can be.
Arpeggio exercises would be great, I’d be all over some more “theory” oriented lessons.
I’ve been working on some praise and worship songs for church, which have a lot of “5” chords (C5, B5, etc) and I can make them and work with them I don’t understand why they’re called 5s. Is it taking out the 5th note of the scale (or adding it)?
I believe “5” chords are indicating that the 3rd is left out, so the chord is just the root and the fifth. In rock music, a 5 chord is called a power chord. Ben’s bluegrass G chord is a 5 chord, because he leaves out the B note and plays only the G and D notes.
Since it’s been answered, I wouldn’t normally post, but Larry said, “I believe.” He is correct (as always)… the only notes in a 5 chord are the root and the five. As Larry said in a G5, that would be G and Ds across the whole chord. In a C5, it would be C and G’s. They are used a great deal in praise music. G5, C9 (or C2), Em7 and Dsus4 will get you through a fairly huge amount of praise songs. Many praise players leave the 3rd fret of the B and high E down through the whole song to act as a drone (which leads to the chord progression I previously mentioned).
I use “I believe” as my standard disclaimer, since I’ve learned there’s a good chance someone will come along behind me with a better answer. (doh! It’s happened again.)
Thanks boys! As usual, great input. That makes perfect sense on the "5"chords. I had looked around online and watched some very informative youtube vids but it never sunk in until now.
Mike
A five chord is kind of interesting in that it is neither major nor minor. Instead of being a “happy” or “sad” chord, I guess a 5 chord is kind of ambiguous.
Tru
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A five chord is kind of interesting in that it is neither major nor minor. Instead of being a “happy” or “sad” chord, I guess a 5 chord is kind of ambiguous.
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You are right on that, the “5” chords are also great in fast chord changes, or just getting yourself out of trouble in a Jam (like a fiddle tune you dont know) since they can sub for either a minor or a major chords.
Mswhat:
On guitar I suggest you look up the “CAGED System”…this is a great place for learning the beginning of theory/understanding patterns in regards to guitars. The letters in “CAGED” each represent the chord shape represented and focuses on learning those shapes and the scales around them…do a search on youtube “CAGED SYSTEM” and you will find a wealth of info to view.
Oh and the coolest 5th chords I ever seen use was the during the lead-in-strum to “Aime” by “Pure Prairie Leaque”…that rhythm is what I call “stacked A5 chords” of which you fret:
D string at 7th fret
G string at 9
B string at 10
and E string 12
This gives you A’s and E’s only and is a really rich sound.
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Mswhat:
On guitar I suggest you look up the “CAGED System”…this is a great place for learning the beginning of theory/understanding patterns in regards to guitars. The letters in “CAGED” each represent the chord shape represented and focuses on learning those shapes and the scales around them…do a search on youtube “CAGED SYSTEM” and you will find a wealth of info to view.
Oh and the coolest 5th chords I ever seen use was the during the lead-in-strum to “Aime” by “Pure Prairie Leaque”…that rhythm is what I call “stacked A5 chords” of which you fret:
D string at 7th fret
G string at 9
B string at 11
and E string 12
This gives you A’s and E’s only and is a really rich sound.
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Thanks Oldhat…I’ll look up the CAGED system and see what it’s all about. Is there a particular user or series that you feel may be better than others?
Sorry I haven’t replied sooner, the kids are keeping me busy this fall! I have 2 going in different directions. Seems like I never get a chance to play anymore either!
Mike
I watch a lot of Pebber Browns & Andrew Wasson’s Lessons…also included Justin Sandercoe’s. This is a start on the CAGED system for you. Basically it’s a 5 position program that I feel is the basic fundamentals for guitar.
Justin Sandercoe
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MbwbWSeZjc[/video]
Pebber Brown
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueW5L7Wy4As[/video]
Andrea Wasson
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Mswhat:
On guitar I suggest you look up the “CAGED System”…this is a great place for learning the beginning of theory/understanding patterns in regards to guitars. The letters in “CAGED” each represent the chord shape represented and focuses on learning those shapes and the scales around them…do a search on youtube “CAGED SYSTEM” and you will find a wealth of info to view.
Oh and the coolest 5th chords I ever seen use was the during the lead-in-strum to “Aime” by “Pure Prairie Leaque”…that rhythm is what I call “stacked A5 chords” of which you fret:
D string at 7th fret
G string at 9
B string at 11
and E string 12
This gives you A’s and E’s only and is a really rich sound.
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Man those G and D shapes are HARD to make barred!! I gotta work on this…
Man those G and D shapes are HARD to make barred!! I gotta work on this…
I agree 100% and I do not hardly ever make the G shape chords elsewhere nor see a lot of guy using this shape very often.
The ones I see transitioned up the board is the E, A, and C for the most part. The D shape is identical to the C shape once it’s made in to a bar chord so when practicing your “D shape” simply realize that you are making a D chord shape on the 1st 3 strings and then making a C…they go hand and hand with each other.
Same goes for that funky G shape…notice the A shape inside of it?
This is typically a major break through for most guitar players when they can transition these shapes up the neck and make different chords…same applies for all stringed instruments and their shapes!
To get better at using these shapes force yourself to use them. If you play with some “strummers” that simply make all their chords within the 1st three frets then you should practice making them elsewhere, not only will this help your learning curve it will also add a different sound to the music and make it richer.
If I am playing in a “jam” or with strummers and singers then I fell a single guitar for standard rhythm is enough and I will only try to add in rhythm fills over their rhythm “here and there” and I will do it with a different shaped chord up the neck. So if they are strumming in your old standard D chord then I will maybe go up to the 10th fret, make an E shaped D chord and play the bottom half of it. The cool thing about going up that high or higher in playing rhythm is that absent a mandolin playing rhythm you can add in that sound with a guitar. What I call the “mandolin sound” starts on a guitar at the 12th fret.
Lots of cool stuff to learn about an instrument. Your next step around these chord shapes is to learn the major scale around each shape (your Doe-Rae-Me-Fa-So-La-Ti-Doe)…in essence you will learn how to play your G major scale in 5 positions (locations) on the fret board…Do this and you will have full knowledge of the notes on the entire fretboard and and slide and skip around where ever you want to…that’s what the “pro’s do”…we tend to think they know something magical but they are simply sliding up to play the scale somewhere else.
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I agree 100% and I do not hardly ever make the G shape chords
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Good thoughts Jesse. I don’t use a full G shape either, but I do use a partial G5 shape pretty often on just the highest pitch strings. For example for a D chord, I’ll often use D open, G 7th fret, B 10th, E 10th for a nice punchy D5 voicing. It’s an easy partial bar. You can also pick up the D string at the same position as the G string (for a D, that would be 7) for a four string bar.
Got ya there Mike I do that every so often.
A cool D I like to use a lot is based of the A shaped D…goes E string on 5th fret, and then on the B and G strings fret the 7th and play the open D string over top of them…this is a really cool way to start Neil Young “Harvest Moon”.
Seeing shapes and scales across the board is pretty cool.
Mswhat:
I know some of this stuff takes time, but rest assured that if will become natural after repetition. I always tell guys that I am helping out to “Remember back when you started learning chords and strumming how long it took just to switch chords, then one day you did not even have to look”…well same will come true with your scales and other chord forms up the neck at some point you only have to glance down quickly to make sure you are going to the correct fret and the fingers will then fall in place automatically.
The only thing I wish I would have done differently in learning the scales around these forms is to say/sing out the letter of the note in the pitch of the note while learning. Current day I am going back and training my ear and could have had a few years of that already in me if I would have said the note when I hit it and said it in the pitch/in tune with it.
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I’ll often use D open, G 7th fret, B 10th, E 10th for a nice punchy D5 voicing. It’s an easy partial bar. You can also pick up the D string at the same position as the G string (for a D, that would be 7) for a four string bar.
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I use that movable chord shape pretty often, but hadn’t thought of using the open string on the D chord. Cool chord!
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Current day I am going back and training my ear and could have had a few years of that already in me if I would have said the note when I hit it and said it in the pitch/in tune with it.
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Me, too! I started woking with one of those computer ear training programs a couple of weeks ago, and I am horrible at it… way worse than I thought I would be. I wish I had started working on it a lot earlier. Almost 2 years into seriously working at guitar, and I’m still learning how to practice efficiently.
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I know some of this stuff takes time, but rest assured that if will become natural after repetition.
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Yep…I’ve been playing for a long time but never really learned the “right” way (scales, chord shapes, theory) etc and now I’m backtracking and trying to make the pieces fit. I think I spent way too much time in my college days playing 3 chord Buffet songs!
I also have a problem with focus…I’ll get rolling on guitar or a new song or lick and then see a new lesson on banjo and go pick that up for a few weeks. It’s tough trying to do it all. 