Here is a photo from the low e side. You’re right about the measurement, it is actually 2/16 from
the top of the bridge to the top of the saddle. Not sure if I mistyped or mis measured.
[attachment=0]IMG_20120826_131439.jpg[/attachment]
Relief and Setup
[attachment=0]IMG_20120826_131439-1.jpg[/attachment]
A closer view but a little blurry.
Thanks Mike,
2/16" is more better. There is still not a bunch of room to remove saddle height, but it’s better than under 1/16. Thanks for the low E side pics. The picture agrees the measurements… it’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to remove much. I say that, but there are many people in the world who would shorten the saddle. It will impair the sound, but it would still help the action. We can revisit that later.
Did you get a chance to look over my brief 
post on setting the relief? Is that something you wanted to give a try or would you prefer to take it to a luthier?
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
Thanks Mike,
2/16" is more better. There is still not a bunch of room to remove saddle height, but it’s better than under 1/16. Thanks for the low E side pics. The picture agrees the measurements… it’s fine, but I wouldn’t want to remove much. I say that, but there are many people in the world who would shorten the saddle. It will impair the sound, but it would still help the action. We can revisit that later.
Did you get a chance to look over my brief post on setting the relief? Is that something you wanted to give a try or would you prefer to take it to a luthier?
— End quote
Yeah I did, I’d like to try the relief myself and see how things change. I’ll try that tonight
and will post when done.
I’ll start with about 1/8 turn clockwise, right (after loosening strings and rod first per your
instructions)?
Thanks again Mike!
Yep, that’s correct. It will likely take more than one adjustment/measurement cycle, but 1/8 turn is a good amount to move it between checks of the relief.
Let us know how it goes
By the way, on another thread there was a discussion about a tool to measure string heights. One of the best cheap tools is a little 1/32 and 1/64" ruler by general. I can’t really read 1/64" increments easily anymore, but there is a T shaped pocket clip that you can set as a visual guide and then you can read the measurement once it is lined up. In other words, the “wings” of the T are very easy to see under the string and help ensure one is measuring perpendicular to the string. You can bump the T up and down until it is even with the string, then pull it away from the guitar and read the measurement with your reading glasses (if you have need for them like I do).
Here is a link to one at Lowes:
lowes.com/pd_186495-56005-30 … reId=10151
Thanks for the help guys!
Mike, you reckon that ruler is 6 ft. or 6 in.? I need to pick one of those up.
I saw that too
If it’s 6 foot for $2, I’ll buy the store out and re-sell them. We can retire!
I thought I would share what I ran across on my guitar (a D18GE). It has been sitting out of it’s case for a few days. The humidity has been between 41% and 45% for the last week or so, so you wouldn’t expect much change due to that. Nonetheless, It’s starting to get a little jangly in the lower frets of the higher strings, it has been a change that has happened over months, but I noticed it much more yesterday. I looked at the frets in the affected area and they are starting to get a bit worn. I think that is part of what is going on. When I set the action earlier this year, I set it pretty much right on the edge. With that said, a fret level and dress takes a long time to do (I am slow) and I don’t think the wear quite justifies it yet. I think I said before that I generally don’t measure relief much anymore, but mine looked low (lower than I thought it was when I set it), so why not measure it? Using the low E string as a straight edge and feeler gauges indicated that the relief was somewhere around .004". There’s room for more relief without doing any harm, so I figured I would try to correct the jangly frets by adding a little relief. The measurement didn’t really tell me much different than the eyeball assessment, but it did re-enforce the impression. I removed a bit more than 1/8th of a turn of relief (I don’t mind doing more than 1/8th when loosening), re-tuned the middle two strings. And voila! Jangly B and E is gone. Wow, sounds much better. The whole thing sounds louder and punchier. Why didn’t I do this weeks ago? I re-checked my relief. The highest seems to be my 9th fret at .007" I get out my straightedge to get a better measurement, and it’s more like .009." So the fret leveling is put off for a bit. I was kind of planning on doing it towards the end of the year, and that seems like it will work out. I suspect after a fret level and dress, I’ll be back to a little less relief and slightly lower action.
Also, while I had my tools out, I figured I’d take some pics of my high dollar ($2) ruler in action. I was trying to describe how the “T” helps keep it level, and a picture makes it easy to see. In the first picture, it is not level and you can see the edge of the T hanging below the string on the right side.
[attachment=1]crooked.jpg[/attachment]
Here, I try to get a picture while holding it as I would measure… easier said that done. The sight line is a bit off, I try to position my head where the low and high E strings line up just to be consistent. Also it’s a bit crooked, but it’s good enough to get the idea. I have a new string height gauge coming in that I am looking forward to trying. If anyone is interested, I’ll give a review on it at some point.
[attachment=0]12thFret.jpg[/attachment]
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
Yep, that’s correct. It will likely take more than one adjustment/measurement cycle, but 1/8 turn is a good amount to move it between checks of the relief.
Let us know how it goes
By the way, on another thread there was a discussion about a tool to measure string heights. One of the best cheap tools is a little 1/32 and 1/64" ruler by general. I can’t really read 1/64" increments easily anymore, but there is a T shaped pocket clip that you can set as a visual guide and then you can read the measurement once it is lined up. In other words, the “wings” of the T are very easy to see under the string and help ensure one is measuring perpendicular to the string. You can bump the T up and down until it is even with the string, then pull it away from the guitar and read the measurement with your reading glasses (if you have need for them like I do).
Here is a link to one at Lowes:
lowes.com/pd_186495-56005-30 … reId=10151
— End quote
Sorry I’ve been awol a couple of days…I’ve been tied up plus I wanted to give the guitar a little while to settle in after the truss rod adjustment.
I turned the rod 1/8 (or thereabouts) clockwise…it doesn’t seem to have done much but I don’t have an official measurement yet. I can see the relief in the neck, from the side view there’s a noticeable dip around the 7th fret.
The action starts to get really high on up from there.
I’ll get that measurement in so we can move on. Maybe I’ll go plunk the $2 down for the T-ruler deal! 
Thanks!
Mike
Good deal Mike,
Depending on where it was, it might take a few adjustments before you see much change. You don’t have to wait between adjustments. It doesn’t hurt anything to wait, but it’s not necessary. You can adjust it until the relief is almost gone in one sitting, but you still go through the adjust a small amount and then check the result cycle repeatedly.
The $2 ruler is great, but unfortunately it doesn’t help me with measuring relief.
What does your string height look like at the nut Mike (mreisz)?
Hey Shawn,
The sun has gone down, so my picture needed a flash. It’s not a very good one, but it’s attached. If you want a better one let me know and I can do it when I have some daylight. It measures out too small for the ruler to be of much use (but it’s still in the picture for reference). Using feelers, it seems like .016" is the best fit. That kind of makes sense. When I used to set the nut slot height with feelers as a stop, I think I typically used .018 over the first fret height (edit bad memory… see notes below). This nut was set using the method on frets.com.
Edit: In case anyone cares, I went and looked at my notes… I previously used .010 at the high E up to .012 on the low E… this number was added to the average fret height of the first and second frets. So let’s say my fret height was .035: for the low E, I would make a stack of feelers of .035 + .012 = .047" and use that stack as a stop when filing my slots for the low E and A string. D and G would be .046" and the B and high E would be .045."
Thanks, Mike. That looks pretty close to mine, maybe a little lower. I plan on picking up a ruler tomorrow and seeing exactly where I’m at.
Ok, I’m finally back! After turning the truss rod 1/8 turn clockwise, my measurement at the 12
fret is a hair over 1/16 ". Sorry I dont have exacts, but its about 5/64.
1st fret capoed, and fretted at 14, I can slide a biz card under fret 7 and theres still room. Not much but the string
will ring when plucked.
I need better measurements I know, but this still doesnt seem right.
I know you said the measurements aren’t exact, but 5/64s is generally pretty nice if it’s not buzzing. Does it seem to play well? Is there any fret noise when you play notes at various frets up the neck?
I’m measuring from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string, and it’s a tad over 1/16 on my ruler. It isn’t very easy to play up the neck to me. Some strings are very muted on bar chords. Of course that could be me but the same bar chords on my other guitar sound ok.
Sorry to be throwing more questions at you… If you play the individual notes of the bar chord with a single finger do the notes sound fuzzy or muted? Have the changes in the truss rod made any difference in the sound or the feel up the neck? As the neck gets flatter, the feel should improve in the middle of the neck (less mushy), but at some point, the sound will start getting buzzes (which means for the other parameters, the relief is getting too flat).
Adjusting relief is a process and it usually takes me multiple adjustments to get it to where I feel it is best.
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
Sorry to be throwing more questions at you… If you play the individual notes of the bar chord with a single finger do the notes sound fuzzy or muted? Have the changes in the truss rod made any difference in the sound or the feel up the neck? As the neck gets flatter, the feel should improve in the middle of the neck (less mushy), but at some point, the sound will start getting buzzes (which means for the other parameters, the relief is getting too flat).
Adjusting relief is a process and it usually takes me multiple adjustments to get it to where I feel it is best.
— End quote
No problem, fire away! I just want to get this guitar playing well!
Playing individual notes on the bar, they are sometimes completely muted. You have to really, really press the string down hard to get a decent ring, and even then it has no life. I know bar chords aren’t easy but I shouldn’t have to have incredible Hulk grip to make them sound good.
I can’t tell any difference up the neck after the change. Should we crank it another 1/8th? Also, FYI the neck doesn’t look flat at all, I can see a visible dip starting at the 7-8th fret.
Thanks!
Mike
Ok, thanks. Needing to push down harder doesn’t sound like you are describing buzzing, but rather just high action.
Based on what you are saying, yes tighten some more. If I have kept track, so far you have changed it by tightening about 1/4 of a turn from where it originally sat. You said you can’t see any change up the neck, are you seeing any change at all? Do you feel resistance to the tightening of the nut? The reason I ask that is that if the truss rod was set such that the it was not under tension, tightening will have no effect until the nut seats.
I would keep tightening (in increments) until one of the following occurs:
- You get some indication the nut is bottoming out such as a sudden change in resistance to turning or an odd noise.
- The relief is gone, and the neck is flat.
- You start getting buzzing at some frets (this often occurs at the lower frets, but could happen anywhere). This is normally what one would expect to stop flattening the neck unless the action is fairly high.
- If you get to about a half turn total and no changes are evident, I would be inclined to take it to a luthier to ensure nothing is wrong with the truss rod. I don’t have experience with Washburns, but every guitar I have worked on has had noticeable change within about 1/2 turn. Note: some have taken more than 1/2 turn total to get where I wanted them, it’s just if the rod is under tension one would expect to see changes without too large of a change on the rod.
— Begin quote from "mreisz"
Ok, thanks. Needing to push down harder doesn’t sound like you are describing buzzing, but rather just high action.
Based on what you are saying, yes tighten some more. If I have kept track, so far you have changed it by tightening about 1/4 of a turn from where it originally sat. You said you can’t see any change up the neck, are you seeing any change at all? Do you feel resistance to the tightening of the nut? The reason I ask that is that if the truss rod was set such that the it was not under tension, tightening will have no effect until the nut seats.
I would keep tightening (in increments) until one of the following occurs:
- You get some indication the nut is bottoming out such as a sudden change in resistance to turning or an odd noise.
- The relief is gone, and the neck is flat.
- You start getting buzzing at some frets (this often occurs at the lower frets, but could happen anywhere). This is normally what one would expect to stop flattening the neck unless the action is fairly high.
- If you get to about a half turn total and no changes are evident, I would be inclined to take it to a luthier to ensure nothing is wrong with the truss rod. I don’t have experience with Washburns, but every guitar I have worked on has had noticeable change within about 1/2 turn. Note: some have taken more than 1/2 turn total to get where I wanted them, it’s just if the rod is under tension one would expect to see changes without too large of a change on the rod.
— End quote
That’s correct, there is no buzz at all, just the opposite. You really have to push down unreasonably hard for barre chords to not mute. I’m not the best player but I’m at a point in my playing where I usually don’t have a problem with making barre chords.
I can’t say that I see much, if any, change at all yet. However I do remember the rod was pretty loose when we started and the 1/8 or so turn did make it tighter. I’ll do another 1/8 tonight and see what changes. I remember feeling no resistance, then some decent resistance as I turned it, so I’ll be very careful this time and try not to go too far.
So I should feel some resistance, just not to the point where it feels like one more turn and the thing will blow up?
Thanks again and thanks to the board or any who are following this for putting up with my endless questions.
Mike