Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Martin authentic setup

#1

Hello, I’m new to the site and loving it. I have a Martin 37 authentic which I’m struggling with a bit. I’ve been playing 50 years but classical is my core so maybe my hands aren’t so strong but I find the Authentic action perhaps too stiff and I feel it’s limiting my ability to completely enjoy the guitar at this point, it’s a handful. I also have an hd28v with light strings and the action is lower and easier on my hands. I’ve hesitated to change anything on the authentic thinking my hands will grow into it and it sounds fantastic, not having a truss I just hate to mess with it. Hope this makes sense… should I consider having the action on the authentic lightened/lowered or give it more time, I’ve had it 2-3 years but took a fiddle playing hiatus so maybe been playing it a year? A couple more experienced folks who’ve seen the guitar caution me about changing anything on it.

Greg

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#2

Hey Greg! Welcome to the board!

I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to lower the action. I’ve never heard of that devaluing an instrument. If you’re really worried about it, keep the bridge saddle you have now and buy a new one for altering the action.

You want to be able to enjoy your guitar. Make it a joy for you to play. :slight_smile:

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#3

Thanks Mark, I don’t worry really about devaluing it, I’ll keep it forever… I really love the guitar. Just nervous about changing it, I’ve about decided to go ahead and have the action lightened a bit, stay in the medium side to keep the bigger sound but ease up a hair on the hands, like you say I can always go back.

Btw… Ben if you see this… I love seeing your Aggie ring. I followed a similar path. Pre vet/animal science then realized I’d never maintain a 4.0 so drove a truck ending up out west in Colorado where I got into geology and finished college. My dad was an Aggie so I really like seeing the ring on your video’s :slightly_smiling_face:

Greg

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#4

Welcome to the forum Greg, I’ve read many over the years saying that the Martin factory setup trends towards high action. Perhaps it is anecdotal. Perhaps it is on-purpose from the factory. I believe it is generally easier for the eventual owner to lower the action to their liking than to increase a too-low action. Also, Martin may be mitigating the risk of a low action going out into the world and developing a fret buzz when confronted with swings in humidity. It is probably better for a potential customer at a retailer to say, “Hmmm, the action is a little high” than to say, “This piece of junk is buzzing like crazy”.

A Martin '37 Authentic is a beautiful guitar. I hope you can get the action to where it is comfortable.

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#5

Hi Greg, welcome to the forums!!!

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#6

Hi Greg,

Your '37 Authentic has a "fixed"saddle (at least I think it does) so it’s going to much harder to lower your action than if you had a drop in saddle. You can’t take any material off the bottom because then the two ends of the saddle where it goes into the bridge slot will be too low and leave a gap. Your only alternative is to cut, shape and polish the top of the saddle. This is also tricky because of the radius of your fretboard. I would take it to a reputable repair shop or music store and have this done professionally. I would also have them check the nut slots while you have it there. They may be able to cut those down a bit too. Without a truss rod and having a fixed saddle, these are about your only two options on proper setup. I would also make sure you know which gauge strings you will be using before having this done.

I do believe over time and with enough playing, your hands and fingers will get used to the guitar (as long as the action isn’t ridiculously high). I think Woodshed is right about Martin’s factory setups. So with the combination of having the action professionally lowered and just playing it a lot, I think your guitar will eventually feel right at home each time you pick it up!

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#7

I didn’t realize that. Good to know! I wonder if that lends any tone advantages over a drop in saddle.

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#8

Thank you Jeff… much of this sounds familiar. I just need to proceed slowly, much of the issue may still be in my own hands. Bluegrass style is still new to me so I have some work to do to develop a feel.

Greg

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#9

You’re very welcome Greg, hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will chime in.

That’s a long standing argument between vintagers and moderners (are those words?).

Collings set (or fixed or cut through saddles, whatever you like to call them) can actually be removed. I had a D2H-G and actually removed mine to shave off the bottom to lower my action… Big OOOps! It did lower the action and played better. Luckily I went just the right amount on the first try and didn’t cause any string buzzing anywhere. But… That’s when I noticed the ends of the saddle were now lower in the bridge causing an ugly gap right where the saddle curves at the bridge. Oh well, sometimes you learn the hard way. The right way to do it is either make a new bridge or cut down the top, then shape and polish the existing saddle. Now, since the topic of this post is a '37 Authentic, it’s quite possible that it’s saddle is glued in to the bridge. That’s how they did them back then, so if they go to that much detail building an Authentic, it may very well be glued in. But that just means the repairman will either heat and remove the saddle or work on it in place. So, it still can be done! There are thousands of Martins out there with glued in saddles and luthiers see this all the time, it’s just more of a pain.

Back to your question Mark: I doubt if most folks could ever really tell any difference between a cut through saddle or a drop in saddle. I don’t think I could anyway. I’ve heard plenty of lousy sounding vintage Martins and plenty of great sounding modern day guitars. I’ve also heard plenty of exceptional sounding vintage Martins along with modern Martins. Mike R’s Golden Era D-18 comes to mind! It sounds incredibly good!

First of all, the only true way to tell is to have a bridge with a drop in saddle and another bridge with a set saddle and change it on the same guitar. Who would ever go to that lenght? Maybe a luthier with lots of time on their hands! If you use two different guitars even if they’re the exact same guitar built with the exact same specs, same batch of wood, same everything, they’re still going to sound different. The only way to really know, is by expermenting on the same one guitar.

It’s the same argument as Dovetail or Bolt On Necks… Hide glue or Modern glue… it goes on and on. Peronally, it doesn’t reall matter to me how they’re made as long as it’s built well, sounds and plays good.

I do love the looks of a vintage set saddle over a drop in saddle though!

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#10

Gig 'em, my friend! We have a lot in common. I drove a truck for a couple years/summers before going to bluegrass college, and I love going to Colorado…to chase elk with a pointed stick :wink:

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#11

Lower that action to your liking. It is your guitar and if you don’t like the way it plays, it doesn’t do you much good. As others said, the nut action makes a huge difference, and one thing about nut action is that it is more straight forward… get it set right and it will be “right” for most everyone. Saddle height (and resulting action up the neck) see more variance in “ideal” from player to player. The non-adjustable Tbar necks are great. I have a few and have never had a desire to change the neck relief. As far as a glued in saddle, I think it is pretty easy to manage, but it is more intimidating to get started than it is to work on in my experience. As to “do these things make a difference?”: I don’t know to what degree, but it seems a Tbar neck, glued in saddle, hide glue, scalloped braces all that stuff add up to what makes the Authentics sound better (to my ear) than other Martins that are similar. The magic seems to come from the sum of a bunch of minor changes.

Congrats on an awesome guitar!

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#12

I have to say, the sunburst Authentic that I recently required is one of the best guitars I’ve ever played…and this is coming from a guy currently trying to get a Collings deal, hahahaha.

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#13

I am glad that you are requiring Authentics of your students. It gives me a good excuse :smiley: :+1:

Good deal on the Collings. I do like them, their guitars are just a bit of a different tone. Whether that is a better or not will depend on the ears of the beholder. I do really like their mandolins (and I have one). To me, they seem expertly and lovingly made with tone that rivals more expensive shops. Of course, I bought that long before I heard your Northfields.

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#14

The Collings are AMAZING. The D1AV I played at Carter Vintage is quite possibly the best guitar I’ve played.

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#15

All part of the life lessons we all must learn. I spent a summer working on a ranch in South Texas scraping screwworms out of calves and palpating cows with an old vet who’d contracted Brucellosis from a cow, made me rethink the glamour of the whole vet thing. Since I’d been Brainwashed by my dad that there was no other option in life but to be an Aggie vet I was lost for a few years until I figured out my own way.

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