That has become one of my favorite accomplishments. When I find a pattern that my fingers don’t like, but then train them to the point where it feels natural, I feel like I’ve really achieved something.
Discuss the Banjo lesson: Banjo Backward Roll Study
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Hey there. I’m a banjo beginner - just started this year. I spent a lot of time practicing the different roll patterns in the beginner track, As well as some I had found on YouTube. The backward roll in particular Is giving me a tough time for some reason, particularly the reversal at the end of a 4/4 measure. Most other rolls are getting smooth at 220+ BPM, but this one still feels weird at 180, and sometimes sounds choppy and out of rhythm between beats 4 & 1
Any advice for catching up this roll pattern to the others? Also I feel like I’m spending too much time on this one roll pattern for that reason. Is it important that I master the backward roll pattern before moving on? Or should I keep rolls as at least half of my practice time, focusing on backward until it feels as comfortable as the others?
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Hi Buddy
This is a great post. Sounds as though your making great progress. Don’t beat yourself up with the backward roll speed wise, it’s one of the more tricky roll patterns and when you start to push the speed it will always sound choppy until you’ve master it. It’s a bit like the Alternating Thumb Roll or Square Roll if you play it too fast too soon you loose it.
When I was a beginner I was always encouraged to practice my roll patterns slowly no faster than 70bpm. And I offer that advise to you. The goal should never be to play fast as your learning, that comes later once you’ve gained some level of experience. Speed will come when your brain is ready to instruct your fingers to play faster. It’s important to LISTEN. Feel the timing.
To help you improve your backward roll patterns you should spend way more time on them than you do on the forward roll patterns which from your comments in your post you have already mastered. In the beginning you will experience periods of frustration at your seemingly lack of progress but you have to push through this. If you spend just 15 minutes each day practicing the backward roll over the course of two weeks you should have it pretty much nailed.
Having said that don’t turn your practice session into a chore, practice is about having fun and achieving goals. So don’t let the lack of progress on your backward roll hold you back, move through @BanjoBen 's learning track but also keep on with practicing the backward roll patterns you will need them later on as your playing skills develop.
Hope this helps, Happy Pickin
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Can you post some video of your picking hand playing the roll? I want to see what the issue is. This could even be an issue with how you’re wearing your picks. Also, I can perhaps discern where the issue is happening in the roll sequence: between the middle and index notes, or between the index and thumb, etc. When we diagnose that, I have ways to fix it.
You need to keep moving on and this roll will develop as your playing develops.
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Hey Buddy! im no expert like the others. only played for almost 1,5 years.
but what worked for me is. take 5 min in the beginning of your practise and just do that roll. play it as slow as you need to play it clean and without hickups. even if it is as slow that you can think between. if you do it every day you will develop muscle memory to go faster. 5 mins a day isent that much, and then you can practise more funstuff after.
im at the same situation with the middleleadroll or the dillardroll. dont know the correct name. thats messing with my brain atm.
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@buddy.hicks If you move on in the courses, that roll will keep finding you over and over in Ben’s arrangements, so you’ll inevitably keep working on it from different platforms. This can help practice not be so monotonous as just sitting there doing backward rolls. However, there were times in my beginnings that I would just sit there and mindlessly work on rolls while watching TV or listening to a sermon on my iPod, etc.
If you wanted to specifically work on it, I recommend using a feature with the .tef files. There is a setting where you can select a set of measures and then put them on a loop. Within that loop, you can set the .tef file to increase in speed by a certain percentage. This will help you start slow, and then gradually increase in speed to push yourself.
In order to do this in TefView: click Play then Relative Speed. In the box that opens set your tempo at the top (this will be your beginning speed), then select which measures of the .tef tab you want to loop, then select how fast you want the speed to increase with each loop.
Once you put all of those in, you have to hit Play instead of OK. For the longest time I just kept hitting OK and then got frustrated when it didn’t loop like I wanted it to.
I hope this helps!
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Hey, Thanks for the advice and sorry for delay. Had a couple busy weeks and haven’t had a chance to practice much. Anyway, I think I uploaded one video picking through the tab from this lesson, and one with of just the backward roll starting with middle finger (the one I have the most problems with). Hopefully you’ll see a few things there for me to work on.
I’ve been working on the backward roll longer than I’d like to admit and seeing little progress, So i decided to post some questions on this lesson. After reading these post you guys have answered and helped me with some problem areas. Sometimes you just need to dig a little deeper (meaning reading some postings or posting a video 
)
Thanks Gene
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Having only learned and practiced the forward roll for Boil Dem Cabbage Down, this is really throwing me off.
Ahh, yes, then my mission is almost complete. Keep going till it doesn’t throw you off, then a new avenue will have been built within your brain!
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I absolutely love this lesson. I’ve been playing for about 3 years now and just now signed up for your site. I consider myself an intermediate player and decided to review the basics and I love how you go over rolls that start with different fingers. I’ve unknowingly been playing them but didn’t have this fundamental concept in place. I was wondering if you could maybe add another lesson to this mixing all the rolls up. Kind of like a brain teaser for banjo rolls.
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Hi @sean.downing84 Sean. Welcome to @BanjoBen 's Forum. Great post. As you work through these beginner track lessons lessons you will find they are great foundation tools for what is to follow in the Intermediate and Advanced sections. I can tell you there are a ton of lessons that include mixed roll patterns waiting for you to discover them as you move forward. Happy Picking
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I love you are using Boil em Cabbage down, My daughter is learning it in her violin lessons so I have been practicing my forward roll playing rhythm for her. Now I have backward roll to add, we shall see how that goes. It does make my brain hurt at times but it keeps getting smoother the more times we play it. I have to capo though as she is learning it in A so I capo up two frets. How do I play the fifth string though, as the capo doesn’t cover that string.
Hey @edneb1949, I’d recommend getting fifth string spikes installed on your banjo. Check out this video:
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Thank you so much, where do you get the little spikes?
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Glad to be of help! You can get them from the General Store here:
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After reading some of these posts, I feel a lot better about my slow progress. I have played “at” the banjo for a few years now and have developed some bad habits that were hindering my progress. So I decided to start all over with the basics with Banjo Ben. In the past, I wanted to play too fast, too soon. I knew a few songs, but couldn’t really play with anyone like jumping into a jam session. Had trouble hearing chord changes, etc. But I realize now that I was expecting too much from myself, especially since I don’t have a musical background. One of my biggest problems has always been the backward roll. I am really trying, and do so appreciate all the honest comments from others. One thing I know for sure. I am crazy about the sound of a banjo and always have been. So…I will keep on keeping on. Thanks.
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Just want to clarify. After playing the final note in a Reverse Roll, the next motion is actually a forward motion
to begin the Reverse Roll again.
For example, in measure 17 (Boil Dem Cabbage), the final note of the Reverse Roll is played with index(1).
The next note in measure 18 is played with middle (2) which briefly breaks the reverse motion as it moves forward or the beginning of the Reverse Roll again. Is this correct ??
Hope this makes sense ??!!
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Yep, this is because we need to “reset” to play consistent melody notes in Boil Dem Cabbage Down – we’re stopping the roll in the middle of it and starting at the beginning of the roll pattern again. This happens in the forward roll version of the song too. This doesn’t make up the roll itself; the definition of the reverse roll is always index following middle, thumb following index, middle following thumb, etc.
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