Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Discuss the Banjo lesson: Alternate Banjo Tunings

#20

@AdamAsh what do these alternative tunings mean for other instruments? Are the tunings close enough that other instruments play in their normal tuning? For example, drop C tuning is often used for banjos playing Angeline the Baker. Tune the banjo to drop C, capo up two frets and play in the C position gets the banjo to D, which is the key the fiddlers like for that tune.

Do the fiddlers (and other instruments) play their normal key of D or are they expected to modify their playing to suit the banjo tuning? Or is the desired result that the alternate tuned banjo provides a more unique sound? Great topic and lesson by the way.

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#21

The tuning of the banjo makes no difference as long as you all play in the same key. If you play Angelina Baker in drop C capoed two, just tell the fiddler key of D and they can play along however they see fit. Just make sure you know what key you’re playing in, and it’ll all work out

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#22

Yeah, @Dragonslayer is right. The other instruments can just play as they normally would. The key there is just making sure that you are actually in tune. If you tune down by ear without using a tuner at all, often you can be in tune with yourself, but not with anyone else.

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#23

I concur; making sure you are in tune with the other instruments you are playing with is very important. My youth pastor and I both played guitar for a special recently and didn’t check our tuning with each other, and we sounded like a badly out of tune 12 string. :man_facepalming:

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#24

https://banjobenclark.com/lessons/soldiers-joy-banjo

Ben already has a lesson for this song in this tuning. Did you not check for this, or do you just really want to know exactly how Adam plays it?

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#25

Hi Gunnar, My real reason for posting the request was add value to @AdamAsh 's great lesson. To give those that wish to have an opportunity to try playing some tunes in alternate tuning’s.

At the time I hadn’t realised @BanjoBen had Soldiers Joy as a lesson on the site in Drop D. (Adam 's version is in Drop C ) I just listed those tunes that were on Adam 's lesson.

I already know/play my own arrangement of Soldiers Joy which I learned by ear about 10 years ago and have tweaked it over the years. It would be great for all students to see how Adam’s version differs from Ben’s version.

Ben’s version has it’s own character and style, it has way more bounce than my arrangement.

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#26

I like these alternate tunings but is there any further discussion about knowing when to use them , or what do the other instruments have to do in response to changing your tuning etc? Are these tunings in response to a different song key, or has another instrument(s) also altered their tuning as well? Once were out of Open G, or A or B, I get a little lost.

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#27

The other instruments just have to hang out for a few minutes while the banjo player achieves this alternate tuning. :grinning::banjo::banjo::grinning:

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#28

Hi @Stixx3969 Keith like you I’d like to see more lessons on alternate tunings. Tony Ellis does have a TAB book of tunes with alternate tunings. I bought a copy years ago but I never got down to learning any. Maybe I’ll dig it out later this year and try to record something. I really like playing in E tuning, Drop C and Open D tuning is fun too. Although Ruben is the only tune I know in Open D. Last year I recorded my best attempt of John Hartford’s Lorena in E. and Casey Henry’s Arr of John Hartford’s Gum Tree canoe also in E.

Feel free to check them out

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#29

@Stixx3969 Good questions! Really, it depends on several things:

  1. Does it make the song easier to play?
    It’s much easier to play most songs in a way that we can use as many open notes as possible. Also, some notes are just not accessible at all in standard G tuning.

  2. Are we trying to get a certain effect?
    Songs played in an open E tuning, for example, are played exactly the same as an open G tuning, but the banjo has a unique low growly kind of tone that is neat, (aside from the fact that it is easier to play than playing out of chord positions in an open G tuning). Also, it’s easier for songs to kind of lose a bit of the drive that they would have in an open tuning if you’re having to play out of chord positions, at least it is for me. I can drive a song better if I’m playing from an open G position and can do my normal hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides, etc.
    In other alternate tunings, there are certain licks that you can do and notes you can get for certain effects that are not actually necessary, but just add to the song.

  3. Does it make sense to take the time to tune to an alternate tuning?
    When Jim Mills was playing with Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder, they recorded a song where Jim used C tuning. I later saw them perform a show where they played that song mixed in with several other songs in standard G tuning, and Jim stayed in G tuning because he didn’t have the time to retune between songs. Our band does a couple of songs for which I use E tuning. Thankfully, I have 2 banjos to play, so I take them both to our shows and leave one tuned to E.

Ultimately, it’s all about what key the song is in and what is easiest or achieves the sound that you want. It really doesn’t matter whether other instruments alter their tuning as well, or if they stay in standard tuning.

Hope this all makes sense and helps!

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#30

Thanks Adam!

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#31

Lorena - E Tuning has any made a tab ,for the way Adam is playing it, His version and his tuning gave me goose bumps.

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#32

Not to my knowledge @ovbey.lane John Hartford did release a double DVD which does feature Lorena and does include TAB. I’d suggest you check you also check the Banjo Hangout

#33

thanks archie you are a scholar and a gentlemen.

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#34

Glad to help. You can learn Lorena in G then retune to E.

#35

Cool lesson. Broke my first string while tuning though, and I don’t have any new strings.:roll_eyes: #howBenmakesmoney :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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#36

No worries @KevinB it happens to us all, good news is the General Store keeps a plentiful supply in stock and the guy’s there are just sittin waiting on your call.

https://store.banjobenclark.com/collections/strings

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#37

They are down two sets of strings now.:grin:

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#38

Hi Adam, or any player…
May I ask re your thoughts on your mental approach to alternate tunings? When in standard G, I’ve got a good handle on fretboard note positions, but say in D tuning (F# D F# A D) which I play less frequently, I take a pattern approach, rather than learning fretboard note positions. Any advice or opinions on how to approach alternate tunings?

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#39

Hi Brendan welcome to @BanjoBen 's Forum
I don’t play a lot in D tuning (F# D F# A D) In fact I can’t remember the last time I played in D Turning. I learned Ruben from the Murphy Method DVD many, many years ago and as I recall it wasn’t all that difficult/different to playing in G. I am comfortable playing in D i.e. Open G with the 5th string capoed at 7th and as Alan Munde does it Open G and avoid the 5th. Not sure if @BanjoBen teaches any tunes in D tuning (F# D F# A D) but you have inspired me to look again at Murphy’s Ruben. I think Earl only played a a couple of tunes in D tuning (F# D F# A D) Possibly John Henry or John Hardy and possibly Lonesome Road Blues I guess I need to do a little research. I look forward to see what others have to say.

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