Hi Oldhat, good to see you on the new site!
I think your question was to Larry, but Iāll give my info. Mine is a 2002 D-18GE sunburst. Structurally it is good, but there was some excessive pick wear. I think for itās condition, it was slightly overpriced at $2400, but it was on consignment and there was no wiggle to the price. I loved the sound and the way it played, so I bought it. I think Iāve already gotten my moneyās worth out of it. Itās a keeper. In a way, itās nice having it pre-loved, as I donāt jump out of my shoes if I or someone else dings it.
D18 Report
I was wondering what happened to oldhat, too. Glad you made the jump. Weāre missing some other regulars like Aaron and zlwilliams, too.
My guitar is a 2005 standard D-18 and I paid $1300 and change. The guitar is really starting to grow on me. I swear itās louder now than when I bought it. I donāt know if the guitar itself has changed from playing it every day, or if Iāve just become more efficient at playing it, but Iām liking it.
Thanks for the report on both guitars!
Yeah it took me awhile to get caught up and make the move hereā¦Ben and I passed back and forth a text or so and he said the new site was going live and I was so busy that I have just gotten around to making the switch.
Not to hijack your thread but I was texting our host letting him know that I had bought a fishing boat and that he was more than welcome to come bass fishing with meā¦He lives about 20 minutes from me, and 5 minutes away from Old Hickory Lake which is a premier fishing lake in tn and I drive right past his place to get thereā¦of which I landed a nice 5lb largemouth on last week!..so the point is is that I have been fishing my butt off for the past 3 weeks and little if any guitar playing has been done by meā¦you guys know how us boys and our new toys goā¦man I am in my 40ās and retiredā¦I never realized that I would get this sore from slinging crankbaits all day!
Now back on the Martins. I tell you what, you know how you get āthat soundāā¦well It pretty much drives me crazy when I donāt get āthat soundā and I tend to go through strings like they are going out of style to maintain āthat soundā so make sure you buy plenty of strings for the D18 you just got as mine tends to keep āthat soundā from maybe 20-30 hours of playing timeā¦speaking of that, Guitar Center (of which I rarely buy anything from) did have a special that Martin was running on stringsā¦I think it was 5 packs for $19.99ā¦I asked the guy if there was a limit and he said ānoāā¦so I told him to give me $200 worth of the Spās.
Iāve rambled on here and I have hijacked your thread but you deserve it because you and Ben both added new D18ās over the past few months/month and I did not so you deserve out of envy to get your thread hijacked and for me to ramble on!
Oldhat
Been fishinā, huh. Well, I guess that is one of the three excused absences from banjobenclark.com. (The other two are hunting and flying).
I can relate to what youāre saying about wanting to constantly change strings, not only because I want the sound of the new strings, but also because I like testing out different string brands on the new guitar.
This guitar sure was a big step up in tone from my Takamine and Iām fortunate to have it, but itās still nowhere near as nice as Ben or Mikeās GE model. GAS is a pernicious disease - Iāve got a nice Martin and Iām still coveting other guitars!
ā Begin quote from "ldpayton"
This guitar sure was a big step up in tone from my Takamine and Iām fortunate to have it, but itās still nowhere near as nice as Ben or Mikeās GE model. GAS is a pernicious disease. - Iāve got a nice Martin and Iām still coveting other guitars!
ā End quote
An odd thing happened to me in my GAS activitiesā¦ As I get new guitars in search of āthe oneā guitar to rule them all, my appreciation for my others grows. I mean, I had some humble ones early on, but the ones I currently have are good for different reasons. I sometimes seem to be a bit contrarian with them as well. Sometimes I enjoy fingerpicking on my adirondack dreadnaught and flat picking on the sitka OM. Thatās not the way itās āsupposedā to work, but I like what I like. I was planning on selling my OM when I got a ābetterā one to replace it, but I never did. The ābetterā guitar is great, but I still like my OM. I still have my Tak, because I can take it anywhere or loan it to anyone and not worry about it. If you are like me, I would bet that if I sent you my GE, youād have things or applications that you like about yours better than mine. The difference in tone is huge from a beginner guitar to a nice Martin like the one you have, but from that point as you start adding little tweaks, the differences become less with every addition. They just have different voices, and you may already have that perfect voice developing in the guitar you already have (and with flat picking it can change quickly). Iām not saying to call off the search that GAS inspires. But I am saying that you have what seems to be a great guitar. Enjoy it, because you may never find one that suits you better.
Hi everyone Iām new to this forum but it looks good to me!
Iāve recently purchased a 2001, Martin D-18GE and it is a real cannon and at last I can hear what Iām playing in the band. The sound is amazing and seems to be ātheā Bluegrass sound. I have a 1979 D28 and a 2001 CEO 5 also, and the D18GE is far superior in sound quality and volume to bothā¦However I am quite concerned how soft the lacquer is. Just the slightest knock will leave a dent or mark whereas the other instruments are quite forgiving. Does anyone think the same or know if this is relative to the model and as it should be? I did think at one point that it had been over sprayed but is probably not the case.
Also I am a little concerned that the the bridge may have been taken off at some point and re glued badly. All Martin guitars Iāve owned and seen have really clean glue lines around the bond area of the bridge but this one is definitely messy.
The set up is fine with a good steep break angle and playability is good.
Any comments would be very welcome.
Great stuff and thanks Banjo Ben
Thanks from āSunnyā England (joke)
Martin
Hi Martin,
Iām glad you like the GE. I have a 2002 GE. To the best of my knowledge, the finish on the GE is standard nitro lacquer with an aging toner on the top. You could search the unofficial martin guitar forum to see if they do anything special for the finish treatment. I bought mine used, and it has quite a few minor dings. It does seem to mark fairly easily, but I donāt know if it is more so than other guitars with nitro finishes. If I had to guess, I think mine seems on the thinner side of Martins I own. If yours is very susceptible, it could be that when it was buffed, it ended up thinner than most guitars (itās a hand-done process). It could also that the finish was exposed to conditions or chemicals that have made it softer. If your finish is thinner than most, that may not be a totally bad thingā¦ on some higher end guitars, they use a thinner finish to help push the tone to the limit. If you have some dings or chips that bother you or have exposed wood, drop-fill repairs can be done to where they are near impossible to see. It is time consuming as you have to let the lacquer cure, but it is a very simple process.
As far as the bridge being re-glued, itās a bummer they did a messy job. Mine had the āwingsā re-glued as well. That seems a bit early (10 to 11 years) for needing this to be done, but it can happen quite easily with exposure to heat (such as in a parked car). If there is good news to the messiness of the glue job, it would be that whoever did it obviously used sufficient glue since there is squeeze-out.
Sorry for the aesthetic problems, but Iām glad you have a cannon that plays well. Mine is a bit dinged up as well, but I look at it as a positiveā¦ I am more inclined to play it out and I donāt pucker when someone else wants to play it.
Thanks Mike that is very reassuring. I donāt mind what a guitar looks like and in fact I like the scratches that occur over the years ā¦feels more authenticā¦every scratch tells a story kind of thing, but I gigged with it for the first time last Wednesday and is really dinged and marked as a result already. I felt that it was kind of fragile compared to my other Martin guitars. I was being ultra careful to avoid collisions on stage. We use a single mic in our band and choreography has been worked out really well but we always seem to bash into each other eventually. I was unsure at that point whether I would keep the guitar or not because of the thickness and shape of the neck and playability, so wanted to protect it as best I could so as to be able to sell it if needed. ā¦Nowā¦well I think itās a keeper and Iāll stop being afraid of it and just play!
Have you compared the GE directly with Collings guitars, Bourgois or Santa Cruz and how How did it compare? I played a Tony Rice signature model Dread at a Bluegrass festival in the UK and remember it felt really nice to play but I donāt remember the sound making me smile like the GE.
Thanks again for your comments
Cheers Martin
As it happens I did do an A/B comparison between a Collings mahogany dread (perhaps a D1A) and a GE. Between those two, the GE was louder, they both had great tone, but they were considerably different. Talking about tone is like dancing about architecture (not my phrase, I saw it somewhere along the line), but if it makes any sense, the GE had more attitude. I liked them both, but the GE was preferable to my ear. If I were not picking either/or, I liked them both very much. I donāt remember the differences in their action, as neither was unusual and I usually modify that over time to my liking. The neck profiles were both enjoyable. My main guitar I had played for years was a Martin V-neck, so it feels good to me. I bought the GE, but I wouldnāt have faulted anyone who picked the Collings. At that same visit I also got to play a D-18 authentic. The tone was killer, and it was super responsive. However I wasnāt sure I would get used to the neck profile. In retrospect, I think I would have, but it was a pretty pricey chunk of wood.
Had a full day yesterday just playing and getting used to the guitar. It really does sound good. It has a real ācrackā when you lay into a good old favourite G run or two but has so much tone even when played gently. One of the guys in our band has a D18 VS and when played hard it seems to crumble and sounds cluttered and generally a messā¦The GE however seems to just get louder without losing any of its tone. Is this what to expect with an Adi top?
So now the guitar has been played a bit, gigged too and the strings are well worn in and bordering on dead (same strings it came with)ā¦It sounds even more authentic than it did and Iām well happy. The finish is still bothering me thoughā¦It shouldnāt I know but until a Luthier sees it and says that it is normal Iāll not really rest. ā¦Questionā¦The neck finish on mine is high gloss from the heel to the top of the headstock on the back, then matte on the edges (by the tuners) and top and front of the headstock. ā¦Is this right?..I ask because this is where the lacquer is really soft. Just a touch with the side of my nail will leave a mark which seems to be below the top surface of lacquer and canāt be removed with polish or cutting. I was a sprayer for many years and this is like the top coat has been applied without de-greasing or keying the layer below. Again if this is right then Iām not really bothered but if someone along the line has had a part respray done then Iād like to know about it. The thing that stood out to me when I bought this (used/privately) was the smellā¦The inside smelled as new as if it had just come from the factory,ā¦and the outside as if it had newly been sprayedā¦Not in a solvent way but justā¦well new!
Oh yes, it has the most unusual (for a Martin guitar) headstock wood grain colouringā¦one half is very dark and the other half lightā¦Iāve not seen this before. It is quite attractive and stands out from the crowd ā¦Looks great and as if it was an original featureā¦Just unusual for Martinā¦If I could figure out how to upload a photo I would.
Iāl stop moaning now and just get on with it!!!
Thanks Martin
Hi Martin,
The playing portion of the neck is polished on mine as well (and matte on other neck areas). I tried a nail scratch test. I am pretty sure I could scratch it with my nail if I dug in, but a medium-light drag of the nail does not mark the finish in any way. Some people polish out headstocks and such, but they come matte from the factory.
BTW, it sounds like you have a guitar with alot of nice features.
Have a good one,
Great! Thanks Mike for all your help. Iāll crack on and play the thing for a few months during festival season and report back after. Iāll let some other people play it and post their comments.
Cheers and thanks again.
Martin
ā Begin quote from "maggot"
The GE however seems to just get louder without losing any of its tone. Is this what to expect with an Adi top?
ā End quote
Sorry I missed the above in my previous post. That is in line with what I understand and have seen. Adi is stiffer than most other top woods, and so it can be made thinner and still have more headroom for heavy attack. I have a sitka topped guitar that doesnāt break up when played hard, but it still doesnāt seem to enjoy it the way adi does. On the other hand, I have found I like the tone I get from a medium touch on adi.
For what itās worth, Gruhnās has 2 of the new spec (1 3/4" nut, scalloped, low profile neck) D-18s in stock.
Hard to stop window shopping, aināt it Mike? 
Iāve been GASing for a Bourgeois Slope D somethinā fierce lately. This one went for $2200 recently. 
I just peruse for the entertainment value 
Thatās a beautiful guitar.
That looks like a nice guitar. Iāve seen quite a few Bourgeois guitars over here at festivals and shop but not had the opportunity to play one. How would something like this compare to a D18 or D18GE?.. My guitar hero Bryan Sutton played Bourgeois at one stage but seems to have gone back to Martinā¦ But I suppose in reality he has all the best guitars available with sponsors wanting him to play ātheirā guitars.
What would be the ultimate setup for a bluegrass guitarā¦Say, for moderately hard rhythm playing and some lead also.
I mean to the nearest .0001"ā¦Action at the nut end and 12th fretā¦and neck relief? We use a single mic in the band and foldback is very restricted because of this so hearing what Iām playing is extremely hard and I tend to overplay. The volume of banjo and Mando is huge at close proximity and at my age when the hearing is tailing off a bit this can be an unpleasant experience. I can get more volume if I increase neck relief and action at the 12th fret but playability then suffers.
What strings are people using? Thickness?
Thanks, Martin ā¦Wet ānā windy in England!!!
Hey Martin,
The ultimate setup depends alot on the player and the basic geometry of the guitar in question. As you mentioned, adjusting action involves tradeoffs between sound and playability. My personal preference is generally to have the action slightly on the low side of median factory specs (I use Martin specs, since thatās mostly what I play). Many bluegrassers prefer very high or very low action.
There are some things that you can do that help playability without hurting tone. One of those is adjustments made at the nut. The actual height of the string at the nut will depend on the height of the frets on the guitar in question. You can measure the fret height and add some thousandths to get a number, but my current favorite way is a way described by Frank Ford here:
frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier ā¦ wnut3.html
In essence, you lower the nut action until pressing down on the string between the 2nd and 3rd frets will result in a very tiny clearance showing between the string and the first fret (a sliver of light type of clearance). I used to measure and use stacked feelers as a stop, but Frankās method has resulted in far better job. I have only done one of my guitars this way, but there is almost no difference in playability when I have a capo at the first fret versus no capo. I think the nut is basically as good as it can get. If I could suggest one thing to start with this would be it. Getting your nut right is a great way to increase playability, and I donāt notice any loss of tone or volume.
My guitars fall somewhere between just under 5/64 to just over 6/64 (3/32) measured on the low E string at the twelfth fret. The high E string is of course a bit lower, but the only time I pay close attention to the high E is when I am shaping a radius on a saddle (not common). My one that has just under 5/64 (low E)is a bit too low for flat picking. I flatpick on it anyway, but it does get a wee bit buzzy when I dig in. I was going to raise the action a smidge, but itās fun to play as it sits, so I havenāt done it. I might be able to remove the buzzing with a fresh fret level and crowning. The way that one got a bit low was I set it up with mediums, but didnāt like the way the belly looked. When I dropped to lights, that was enough change to make a noticeable difference.
I generally set up with very little relief. I start out my setup by setting it flat and generally end up with 5 thousandths or so. I measure relief by putting a capo at 1st fret and hold the string down at 12 and measure the clearance at the 7th fret. I used to always āmeasureā it accurately , but now I generally do it by feel (and eye) and only measure it if something raises a question. I am not looking for a number, but rather the least amount of relief I can do with the other parameters as they sit.
As far as saddle adjustments, this is where I seem to experience the greatest sacrifices in tone when lowering the action. I have seen guitars that sounded great with a very low saddle (and low string break angle). However, how they do that is a mystery to me (and it makes me wonder how good those guitars would sound with a better string break-over angle). As I progressively lower action at the saddle, at some point, I do notice a decrease volume and toneā¦ thatās when I know I might have gone a bit too far.
I am happy to share my thoughts but certainly donāt take my measurements as the āultimateā setup. I am neither a great guitarist nor a great luthier. My picking attack has been changing since I started into flatpicking last year. My setup preferences from my fingerstyle playing before that is certainly different, but not as much as you might guess. Generally a little tweak of relief and I am happy. Some of guitars are set up higher than what I think is ideal, but their tone is great, so I am hesitant to change it. Setup for me is a journey. I will make large adjustments when I first get a guitar, but then I slowly creep up on what I want over time.
My current favorite strings for flatpicking are martin lifespan 7200 (medium phosphor-bronze). I use lights on smaller guitars.
Have fun finding the ultimate setup for you.
Martin,
Not sure how the Slope D would stack up to a D18, I havenāt had a chance to play one yet. I thought it would be a good compliment to my Adirondack/Rosewood D28. That particular Slope D was Sitka/Mahogany. They say those slope shoulder guitars are pretty versatile and are good for fingerpicking as well as flatpicking. Dying to try one.
Good info as usual Mike!
Hey Shawn,
I have played a few sloped 12 fret Martins to compare with 14 fret dreadnoughts. The differences are there, but to me seem subtle. I suspect one would be happy using the slope shoulder guitar for many different things. I have found I enjoy playing the āwrongā way on lots of instruments. I love doing fingerstyle on big guitars and flatpicking on a baritone ukulele. I think if you have a great guitar, it might not the the optimum for a given style, but it will still be a great guitar. Itās all a matter of personal preferences.