Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

You Jammers. What do you see when you move about?

#1

I’d like some feedback.

I’m at the point where my jamming is starting to “make sense”. I guess about 70% of the time when I move around the guitar that I can either see the triad or scale around the chord we are in during the progression. I still fight finding those melody notes during improv, but can somewhat move properly.

My question…

Do you guys see the scale pattern or chord shape first when you are moving? What’s preferred/industry standard? I’m 50/50 right now with seeing the chord shape/triad and the other 50% of the time seeing the scale. Of course the triad is in the scale, but in this noggin of mine I see the entire scale vs breaking out (mentally) the triad.

All this is kind of based on the CAGED system btw w/some fundamental basics in practicing scale work.

Tips here? Pointers? Just keep on keeping on and be able to see both (scale and break out triad mentally) on demand after more practice? Take up bowling?

While we are here - favorite alternate picking excersize for increasing speed?

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#2

This is a fun topic and everybody’s answers will be different! For me, first and foremost is the chord shape. The CAGED system has really helped the way I think about the guitar neck. If I don’t know which CAGED shape I’m on, I always stop and figure it out. I don’t want to be just guessing or playing by ear around my guitar neck. I want to understand WHY that position is where it is. Then once I find the chord shape, I’m thinking interval numbers to solo. i.e., that’s the 4th, nearby on the next string is a 5th, flat 7th is right below, etc. I’m usually thinking in numbers instead of note names because that’s more helpful in moving things around. So I guess that would be the scale, as you mentioned; although for me the chord is generally step one. And I don’t always mean a full chord but at least the basic shape/power chord/basic triad of the CAGED shape.

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#3

I don’t think in shapes or scales or anything like that really. I focus on hearing what I want in my head, and muscle memory helps make that happen on the guitar… I want to feel the sound flowing from my heart, not my thoughts. On mandolin I think in target shapes and scales a little more though.

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#4

Also keep in mind music is literally a language Improv is conversation, memorization is a play, and sight reading is recitation. Learning theory is like learning good grammar. It enhances your communication. But no matter how much you know about the technicalities of conjugating Spanish verbs, if you’re not familiar with the language from real world experience, you’ll have a difficult time getting around Mexico.

Proficiency is almost ALL about familiarity with the instrument. (I used CAGED for a long time before I learned that it was called CAGED. :joy:) You can speak fluently, cause you’re so familiar with your voice and English. You use those “licks”- those signature phrases that come up in your everyday conversation. Music is no different.

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#5

Your response is absolutely fabulous. Thank you!

To me music has become so much more “mental” at this point. I guess it’s a merging of years of practice on various schools of thought.

Such an interesting level to obtain in learning the art of music. Previously had no idea it even existed. An awakening.

What I find odd about your answer? I have never been a “numbers guy” but instead am a “note guy” when I am moving around. This leads us to another question…which method is best? Move by note or move by number? I’ll admit that those numbers would be easier to track than the notes…or are they?

5 years or so ago I was learning like a machine how to flat pick fiddle tunes. That went on for around 5 years. I stopped, backed up, scale work, triads, caged, etc. After two years of scale and CAGED work I moved to “ear work” and have been working out vocals and lead guitar breaks by ear (still am but am wrapping that up as we speak).

My next move? I plan on spending at least 1 year of focused training on…

Right hand technique and moving around based on the CAGED system - based on the melody.

Time. Time is precious. Any tips, hints, dos or don’ts from anyone would be appreciated.

I need to pick a rabbit hole to go down.

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#6

Now that you’ve mentioned it? Oh yeah, I see the side you go down. The side of muscle memory and hearing what you want in your head. I’ve been doing this “by ear” thing and it has helped me immensely with hearing and muscle memory. I’m about to wrap up Billy Strings break on “Loser” that I worked out by ear (w/the occasional cheating looking at the vid when my ear failed) and once that is completed? I’m done with the ear work and heading into at least 1 year of right hand technique and moving around based on the CAGED system with an emhasis on melody.

I hope to achieve where you are. I just need to work more on the muscle memory. I’ve got the ear tuned up, decent basics, and I am ready to ROLL ON BUDDY!

I left bluegrass and fiddle tunes around five years ago. I backed up. I have committed to 1 year or working on right hand technique and moving about the fret board based on the CAGED system. After that? Spend two years going through all of Ben’s material in order to get that “grass” sound back…licks and all.

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#7

I love your specific goals. This stuff is all so fun to work on! What are your right hand goals? Is there a player whose technique you want to emulate or are you wanting to refine your own style?

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#8

To be honest, I know what sound a string makes when I fret it in a certain spot and I try to memorize where to find each sound. When I’m improvising I do what Michael said, I hear it in my head and play it on the fretboard. No complicated formula, just simple. I do play out of scale shapes of course, but I don’t try and figure what shape I’m on, I just play. Not the best approach and probably may be considered even bad, but it works for me and that’s what matters. It also helps that God has given me a gift to play by ear. Ever since I was 5 years old I could listen to a song I had never heard and go play the melody on the piano. That skill has matured and that is how almost all of my instrument playing take place now. Most people would definitely be better off to focus on scale positions and go from there but I just haven’t taken the time to do it.

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#9

I’m terrible at improvising on guitar and banjo, I can do it pretty decently on the mando, I think it just has to do with the way the notes are laid out that makes it easier for me. I can improvise on banjo, it’s just all the same old licks I always play, I really need to learn how to put in some more creativity. And I honestly just haven’t played guitar very much in years, I pick it up a couple times a month. So these tips are great for me as well.

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#10

My favourite way to spice up my playing is go on YouTube and listen to your favourite guitarist and learn one or two licks a day, and learn them well enough to do on the fly. I’ve done that a lot with Jake Workman and I feel it has really spiced up my playing.
That way if your ending your song you don’t have to do that boring lick you use every other time you can throw in a cool Jake lick.

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#11

That’s a really good idea.

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#12

And keep in mind, if it’s a Jake Lick, it WILL be cool.

Shaky watches as one by one every Lindblom likes his post

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#13

So true :rofl::rofl:

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#14

For me, guitar and mandolin are easier to come up with creative things for than banjo. At least traditional Scruggs style. That’s a big reason why I like melodic style so much, it really opens up the different phrases, melodies, and licks you can play. I just need to get good at doing it :joy:

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#15

Learning new licks is like expanding your vocabulary… different ways to say the same thing if you will.

If you want to make your playing less repetitive I have basically one suggestion: Learn da licks. :joy:

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#16

I agree with the memorizing licks, building your arsenal with muscle memory licks, etc. but I also think it’s important to figure out why they work. Dissect them and understand what shape you’re in, and why. Then you’re not just memorizing patterns but teaching yourself how to build your own.

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#17

Oh I have no style in mind.

Was just looking for something where folks might say “This is is a great exercise for right hand technigue/alternate picking speed building” and share it. Could be an excersize that works on two different areas with a focus on alternate picking speed building.

My goals? Five years ago I could memorize fiddle tunes and such, but I didn’t understand them musicallt. I wanted to work towards becoming a decent guitar player…knew in the world of getting good at anything you had to have solid fundamentals. So I decided to go ahead and make the effort. Mentally told myself 5-8 years is what I need and hope it doesn’t take 10. I have 3-4 left.

I’m determined, it will happen.

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#18

You were def blessed. I am guessing you are one of those “perfect pitch” freaks? Jealous if you are. Folks with perfect pitch get to cut off about 10 years of schooling compared to the rest of us. While we are still stuck on working out the melody for Mary Had a Little Lamb folks like you have already masterered and expanded upon Piano Concerto #2.

Jealous? Yep.

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#19

You actually definitely don’t need perfect pitch to remember what certain frets sound like on a guitar… this would be “learned” as you play while perfect pitch is developed as an infant. What shaky is referring to would be closer to “true pitch”- being able to remember what certain notes sound like through repetition or “relative pitch”- being able to produce any note if a reference is provided. The latter is 100% learnable and by far my most valuable skill as a musician.

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#20

In fact it can be better NOT to have perfect pitch… you can lose it as you get older and your musical perception could get thrown for a bit of a loop.

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