Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Time to humidify

#12

Well, the RH reading have stabilized. In theory, if I did the salt to water ratio correctly (which is a big if), I should see 75%. One hygrometer shows 69%, the other shows 65%. A few observations and conclusions:

  1. The two units stayed pretty close to each other into the upper 50’s so I would say they should usually correlate well with each other at least in the range I observed today from 41% to 58%.

  2. Even if I got the goop mixture right, I am not sure what I learned other than the readings are low (which I view as on the safe side) as well as they diverge when we get to higher humidity ranges I don’t ever see indoors. It very well could be that they are spot on, read low or even read high when we are in the range of 35-50 I typically see indoors. Apparently, if I get some magnesium chloride, I could repeat the experiment and it should give a reference RH of 33%… a more useful data point.

  3. The unit I have had has generally been a good guide for me based on supporting anecdotal evidence. For example, if you have carpet or a cat, they seem to be excellent indicators of low RH due to the generation of static electricity. If you or your cat are shocking everything, it’s probably pretty dry. When a cold, dry front goes through, my hygrometer has shown me the drop and I knew to start supplementing with case humidifiers. If it isn’t exact, no big deal. It still shows me relatively how humid it is. Whether it is 25% or 30% doesn’t really matter as I need to get some moisture going either way.

Before I started writing this post I changed the salt/water mixture (with less water, now just damp salt) and sealed it back up. I just went and checked and the one that was at 69 is now at 70 and the one that read 65 is now 66… Pretty exciting stuff. I think I’ll probably stay up and watch it tonight to see if changes again.

Does anyone know what kind of apple gives the best humidity range in a case?

#13

The final numbers were 72% and 68%.

#14

Seems like your instruments are safe no matter which one was right.

#15

I remain extremely concerned about the apple technique and if eating or discarding one half of the apple could skew final results. While you are doing all this high tech testing, would it be possible to conduct some tests/monitoring on typical apple scenarios and publish the data here? :unamused:

#16

I’ll work on the apple testing… I wonder what effect it would have if I baked a pie with the half of the apple to be eaten.

#17

Is this where I sign up for the apple pie testin’/eatin? :smiley:

Yup, it’s about that time of year. I think I’m going to try out the soap dish sponge deal this year. Been using a Dampit in the soundhole, but I’m not sure that is humidifying the whole case/guitar. Little worried about the fretboard.

#18

— Begin quote from "mreisz"

I wonder what effect it would have if I baked a pie with the half of the apple to be eaten

— End quote

The manufacturer’s instructions does not specify how the apple is to be consumed. Therefore I would think that baking it in a pie would count. What are you gonna put in the other half?

My new Wal-Mart special humidifier is showing betwwen 40% and 42% using a dampit in the soundhole. If it reads a little low like yours seem to Mike, then I would think that’s a safe number. I may go to a sponge in the case though. I’m like Shawn & concered about the neck. I haven’t felt any sharp edges on the frets yet and that’s usually a sign of overdryness along with strings buzzing.

What is the correct humidity supposed to be anyway? Let us know how you pie turns out Mike.

J.W.

#19

— Begin quote from "jwpropane"

What is the correct humidity supposed to be anyway?
J.W.

— End quote

40% to 50% is the normally quoted range. 50% seems a bit high to me, and my target on my non-calibrated h-meter, I shoot for 36 and above.

Here’s a bunch of anecdotal observations that are worth the price you pay for them… I have yet to get out my humidifier during the summer, and it is not abnormal to see 35% when the AC was running a fair amount. In the winter, once we get Northern air masses in here to stay, I run the humidifier all the time, unless we get the gulf air mass here and it gets up to around 45% (on my non-calibrated h-meter). When I have trouble keeping the house at 35%, I take the instruments off the walls, and they go into the cases, often with case humidification. Below 35% is where I start getting static, dry skin, nose bleeds, etc. It may seem odd to say I don’t worry about 35% in summer but I start worrying around 35% in winter. There is a basis to that other than my observations on how the guitars are reacting: Dry cool air is different than dry warm air . The air’s capacity to hold water doubles with about every 10 degrees F (hat tip to my meteorology professor). There is more water in the 35% air that is 76 degrees (my summer indoor temp) than there is in 35% air at 68 degrees (winter). I have found that moisture in the closed case does seem to migrate well. I have put the h-meter in the headstock area with humidification in the body or even the accessory case. After leaving it shut overnight, the headstock area was nicely humidified as well. I know people that never humidify, they have guitars out all winter in KY, they probably have air that stays in the 20 something % range for weeks on end, and they haven’t had any cracks. I know people that have left their instrument in car (in winter) for an hour or two and ended up with multiple monster cracks right then and there. I think rapid changes greatly increase the likelihood of cracks, but that’s just a hunch based on what I have seen. Instruments (particularly rosewood) seem to sound much better when not overly humidified.

That’s about all I can think of. Some of it may be right, but I am certainly no expert.

#20

For what it’s worth, I got a humidifier down today and have it cranking. I knew where the humidity was heading when the cold dry air hit this morning.

#21

I’ve noticed lately that my wal-mart special hygrometer has been reading rather low lately (30% steady for about a week) even with a dampit in the soundhole of my guitar. I remoisten it about every three days by the way. It’s been pretty cold here, the wood burner is going everyday along with the furnace running and we live in an old farmhouse up on a hill with alot of wind. So… I thought I’d try the half an apple test and see what readings I’d get. I was shocked! :open_mouth: In about a twenty four hour period it went from 30% to 53% with the half apple along with the dampit. I also noticed that within just a couple minutes of opening the case it will go from 53% to 44% just from letting the house air into the case. I may have to drop back to just a slice instead of a half.

How 'bout them apples?! :slight_smile:

J.W.

#22

How about them apples indeed!
Another thing that can help: When you take a shower, don’t turn on the exhaust fan. I usually see a bump of about 5% on that end of the house when I do that.

#23

I had my D18 GE sitting out of it’s case at the end of the house away from the humidifier for a few days (I think it was 3). Humidity was reading around 35 in that room. This is similar conditions where I had left other guitars sitting out for several days with no noticeable effect. However, on the GE, it’s top had dropped enough to where the belly was about even with the edges of the guitar. That is to say, a straight edge place just below the bridge did not rock. I have since kept it on the more humid end of the house and kept the case humidification going. After three or four days, there is a bit of belly, but it’s not quite back up where I like it. Why did that guitar sink in the same conditions that didn’t affect others similarly? I don’t know. Maybe adirondack is more prone to shrinking. Maybe my other guitars are already drier. Regardless, I figured I’d post that not all guitars react to humidity the same way.

As a side note, the GE sounded really good with it dried out like that. Maybe they sound best a bit drier than “ideal.”

#24

That’s interesting.

It could be the lighter bracing or the position of the bracing being an inch below the soundhole ( I think that’s correct on a Golden Era). That would cause the bridge area to be weaker giving the string tension more leverage against the bridge. But after I read what I just wrote, I would think that would cause it to belly more. Maybe it is the Adirondack. I dunno, I’m glad you caught it before it got worse.

Did you get any string buzz? That would lower the action some I would think.

My house is so dry, I’ll play one for awhile and put it back in it’s case and get another one out and play it. That keeps them in the humidification and not be exposed too long. It seems to be working, I haven’t seen any noticable changes in them all winter and this has been a rough one.

J.W.

#25

It did lower the action a bit. The strings were approaching getting buzzy, but not enough to where it bothered me. I measured the action today (after the top had come back up a bit), and the difference at the 12th fret wasn’t really measurable to my eye. Anyway, it played and sounded wonderful, but it was headed in a structurally bad direction.

As far as the effect of the bracing position, that could well be the culprit and I didn’t think of that. It does seem kind of counter-intuitive that as it dries, it sunk. The way I think of it is that the top (and bracing) pull back tighter as they shrink (which in turn creates more opposition to the string tension thereby reducing belly). Hey, I just had a great idea. If I dry out my back, will that give me six pack abs?

#26

My head now hurts from reading this thread.

There was some sort of ADD-yet-staying-on-topic ju-ju going on that is perplexing me as I’m not even sure it’s plausible.

#27

I hear ya! I can’t even enjoy an apple anymore. Always wanting to save half…. John

#28

I took a half an apple away from my 3-year old last night and put it in my banjo case. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more confused look on her face.

#29

Hey guys and gals, get the case humidifiers going, steal a half an apple from your confused toddlers and fill up the humidifiers. The airmass moving across the US is one of the driest of the winter (and we’ve had quite a few dry ones this season). At a jam tonight we noticed a small neck block crack on a friend’s gorgeous bearclaw top :cry:

#30

It’s time for my regularly scheduled humidity warning. I got my humidifier fired up for the first time since spring. The latest front dropped it quite a bit.

#31

Yep, put new filters in mine and have it on standby! Fired up the heater and started burning wood a couple of weeks ago.