Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Netgrass: Hard Times

#41

I just called Dianne and had a chat. Updated her on the forum discussion.
I suggested she may like to enter the discussion about tempo, structure, length etc so hopefully she will do so soon.
She did not regard it as her project had thought that as Larry knew the key was C we would work out the structure, put down the instruments and she would then do the vocals - so she’s been waiting for the instrumentation to go up on Kompoz.

I gather she is thinking the tempo as about that of their Youchoob video. By the way the turnaround is only there to grab a little breathing space and build the song out because they don’t have much instrumentation in.

How about if one of you puts up a guitar scratch track just as something to start working to and the tempo, structure etc can be rejigged once Jesse is back ( before Larry has forgotten everything). Perhaps the tempo just a little quicker than Di’s video if you don’t want it too long (I like the chord structure of Claire Lynch’s but to my mind tempo is too quick and loses the intention of the song).

#42

:unamused: By the time I wrote the post Di had already got online and posted :blush:
Seems I got the idea about right though.

#43

Well, I’m extremely flexible about how we structure things. I’m always interested to see how our projects evolve.

I was listening to Claire Lynch a little more closely tonight, and I believe they are throwing in a minor chord. Instead of the progression starting, C/C/F-G/C-F/C/G/C/C, I think they are playing, C/C/F-G/Am-F/C/G/C/C. Seems like there are a lot of variations in how this song is played.

Glad you made it over here, Dianne. I was a lousy messenger. :smiley:

#44

I’ve just listened to both Jesse’s mp3 and Dianne’s Yoochoob. Good one Jesse, I’ll work up a bassline, though that may change a bit if the chord structure changes.
I reckon the tempo should be somewhere between the two, in the interests of keeping the feel and intention of the piece but without it getting too long.

So is someone going to start the project on Kompoz so we have somewhere to upload?

#45

I made a project on Kompoz. This doesn’t make me the bus driver :slight_smile:
kompoz.com/compose-collabora … ctId=38250

I am not sure the exact tempo Jesse used, but from tapping it, it seems to be around 164. If someone does sync with it, please post the tempo on this thread.

#46

— Begin quote from "mreisz"

This doesn’t make me the bus driver :slight_smile:

— End quote

Where do I deposit my fare? I want to get on board.

I think your 164 bpm estimate is pretty close.

#47

No fare is required, it has been paid in full. I love when that happens. :smiley:

I guess the $20 question is: Do we want to put Jesse’s MP3 up as a scratch track or start afresh with a track played against a known BPM?

If there is going to be any digital editing, having it quantized to a beat is handy. The spell checker didn’t like quantized… I guess I should have said synchronized? If there won’t be any digital editing, it doesn’t matter much. Jesse may well have used a metronome as it’s pretty solid.

#48

I guess we could use Jesse’s track as our scratch track, but it would have to be tweaked. It doesn’t have any room for a break and it doesn’t have an ending. Might be just as easy to bang out a new track.

#49

If we are gonna tweak it, I would vote for a new scratch track. “Tweaking” is the kind of digital editing for which it’s nice to have it tightly synched to a known beat. Maybe do it at 160 or 165 to make it a nice round number. It doesn’t have to be “good” as I am pretty sure Jesse will want to do the real GTR track at some point when he returns.

I can get to it, but it might take a few days. I haven’t been playing it since we first started talking about the song. I am getting ready to head out for the evening and tomorrow might be shot before I get there. If you have any desire to do it, I say go for it. I’m happy either way, just let me know so we don’t both do it simultaneously :smiley:

#50

BTW, I like the little F F C G C intro they do before the verses in the non Lynch version. I didn’t notice, did Jesse’s have the progression for that? I noticed he stayed on C for “sigh” in the chorus (which I am ok with whatever on that regard).

#51

— Begin quote from "mreisz"

It doesn’t have to be “good” as I am pretty sure Jesse will want to do the real GTR track at some point when he returns.

— End quote

That’s a hanging curve ball… I suspect it’s just a matter of time for someone to say “Since it doesn’t have to be a good one, let Mike do it.” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

#52

Has anyone laid down a track yet and is that track on Kompoz?

#53

The short answers are no and no. Jesse put a base track down, but it needs to be manipulated or replaced to account for a break(s) and an ending.

#54

— Begin quote from ____

“Tweaking” is the kind of digital editing for which it’s nice to have it tightly synched to a known beat.

— End quote

That’s why I’m always obsessing on playing with a metronome on these projects. It opens up a lot more editing options.

— Begin quote from ____

I like the little F F C G C intro

— End quote

If we add the turnaround, the song might get long. I’m guessing we might get into the 5 or 6 minute range. I’ll make some test runs with different arrangements tonight to see how long the recordings go.

#55

However you want to include (or not include) the turnaround is fine with me. I think it does add a fair amount of style for the price of 4 measures. I think it may only be two measures more than without (each verse), but I’d have to verify it. If nothing else, it would make a nice start.

#56

I set the project up in my software and did some quick math. At 165 bpm, it takes 52 seconds to play verse/chorus/turnaround. Four verses plus one time around for a break would be 260 seconds. Adding a few seconds for the intro and outro still keeps us under 5 minutes.

#57

Sounds like a plan. I take it you have both the verse and the chorus for the break? If so the break could be split into two or 4 parts (I know it’s not an original plan, I’m just getting it in the conversation).

Here’s some opinions and random thoughts: Splitting into 2 sections might be best if we don’t get a bunch of people wanting to throw break tracks in. Splitting into 4 sections gives us plenty of room for a few people to have a little something in it. We could also ornament some break phrases with harmony instrumental parts (like in the chorus on the phrase “Hard times, hard times come again no more”). Although any reasonable instrument would work, for the intro and outro, I think fiddle or dobro lends itself well to this song. I think same that instrument might also sound good doubling the vocals on the last phrase of the chorus “Oh, hard times come again no more.” Again, those are just some random thoughts, no guarantees that they are good ones.

#58

Just to clarify on the intro/tag discussion… I was talking about a 4 measure intro for each verse (a tag of the last line of the chorus). In the attached tef, what I was talking about is measures 1-4 and 37-40 (it appears to be the same format as the chord chart). Were you planning on including that or not when you did the timing of the song?

A few weeks ago I had started working on a little break for GTR for the first half of the verse. When I get that fleshed out a bit, I’ll upload the tab with the idea. If desired, we could get collaborative on the break compositions.

#59

I had included the turnaround/tags in my original calculation, but I just recalculated, replacing the turnarounds/tags with 3 individual breaks (each break played over the chorus) and it only added 13 seconds to the song. That would put us right at 5 minutes.

Thanks for the tef file, now I don’t have to bother with a rhythm track if I want to tab a break.

#60

On the tab, I did not do the Cdim or B7 on the “sigh” of the chorus as it wasn’t in Jesse’s. To be clear, I’d be happy to have it in there as well. It’s good for me either way.