Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Major, minor, diminished, & augmented chords?

Not quite.

Major: Root, Major third, Minor third
Minor: Root, Minor third, Major third
Dim: Root, Minor third, Minor third
Augmented: Root, Major third, Major third.

I’m confused…do you play a major and a minor third that the same time? and two minor third’s at the same time? Isn’t that redundant?

Not if they start from different places. A diminished chord starts on the root and climbs a minor third interval, THEN it climbs another minor third interval from that note. Root –> 3-flat –> 5-flat

A diminished C chord would be the notes: C –> E-flat –> G-flat

You get the chord when you play those 3 notes together, which are made up of 2 minor third intervals.

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I think part of the confusion is that this thread has folks talking two different langues. The first response called out the numeric notes of the scale (root, third, fifth). Some of the later responses started talking in intervals. Some responses talked about both. Some of the terms can be used both as an interval OR defining a note in the scale.

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Tengo que agree con you.

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My bad, I was in a hurry.

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Yeah we just like to be as confusing as humanly possibly while trying to explain something i guess​:joy::joy:

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Well if we made it easy, then everyone could do it… we can’t have that! :crazy_face:

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Major: Root, Major 3rd, Perfect 5th
Western harmony hears this as happy or resolved. The I/IV/V chord progression is made up of Major chords.

Minor: Root, minor 3rd, Perfect 5th.
Western harmony hears this chord as sad and slightly unsettled. The ii/iii/vi chords in a major key are all minor chords.

Diminished: Root, minor 3rd, diminished 5th (b5).
The vii chord in a major key is diminished. This chord sounds very unsettled or unresolved. The fully diminished chord (Root, b3, b5, bb7) is closely related to the Dominant 7 chord (with all stacked minor 3rds, you lower any single note and you spell a Dominant 7 chord). As a result, the diminished chord invokes movement toward resolution.

Augmented: Root, Major 3rd, Augmented 5th.
This chord also has an unsettled sound. It is essentially a Major chord with a raised 5th (or stacked Major 3rds). This chord does not have the urgency of resolution like the diminished chord but instead sounds/feels uneasy. The whole tone scale is a go to for soloing over this chord.

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More on the Diminished chord

As someone said previously, there are only 3 different fully diminished chords . A fully diminished chord is one that includes the root, 3rd, 5th and 7 th of the chord. It is a chord of all stacked minor 3rd intervals that cover a full octave. A fully diminished chord with the note C as the root would be spelled like this: C, Eb, Gb, Bbb.

A triad variety diminished chord would be spelled without the 7 th of the scale and would look like this: C, Eb, Gb. There are 12 of the triad variety diminished chords.

There are also chords known as half-diminished and they include the 7th of the scale but the 7th is not doubley flatted and is only a minor 7th interval. For example, a half-diminished or m7b5 chord is spelled: C, Eb, Gb, Bb. This chord is common as the second chord in a minor key. It also has a very unsettled sound/feel but does not carry quite as much movement toward resolution as it’s fully diminished brethren.

Fun fact about fully diminished chords. These chords are aurally very close to sounding like a Dominant 7th chord (the V7 chord of a key that generally resolves to the I chord in any key). Because, of this, they have strong movement that wants to carry them to the next chord for resolution. Here is the fun part, each fully diminished chord, because of it’s stacked minor 3rd interval nature, can resolve to at least 4 different chords/keys. For example, in C major, the G7 chord is the V7 and generally is used to resolve the song back to I “C” at the end of the tune. The G7 chord has the notes: G, B, D, F . If we were to substitute the fully diminished chord, G#, B, D, F for the G7 chord, you will find that the new fully diminished chord does a fine job as a substitution for the plain Jane G7. Here is where it gets weird. That same chord will also resolve nicely to Eb major, Gb major, and A major and their parallel minor counterparts (Ebm, Gbm, Am, and Cm).

EDIT:

I didn’t explain why the fully diminished chord can resolve in 4 different ways. Any note in the fully diminished chord can be dropped 1/2 step and then be a different V7 chord. For example: G# (Ab) , B, D, F is the fully diminished chord. If we drop the G# to G then it becomes the G7 (V7 chord) in C major. If we drop the B to Bb, then the notes become, Bb, D, F, Ab or a Bb7 (V7 chord in Eb major). If we drop the D to Db, then the notes become: Db, F, Ab, B or Db7(the V7 chord in Gb) and if we drop the F to E, then the chord becomes E, G#, B, D or E7 (the V7 chord in A major).

Fun stuff.

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Did Gunnar goof up? Can’t believe!! :wink:

That said, I’d rather like to be one who goofs up with theory and perfect with play than be one perfect with theory and goofs up with play! :wink: :wink:

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No? I think I got it right, I was correcting Scotty, who slipped up

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Oh you were kidding??!! Major-Minor, Minor-Major, Minor-Minor, Major-Major! The permutations! :slight_smile:

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You are in good company my friend. David Grier feels the same way!

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Yeah @Dragonslayer

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Same here. 100%. My theory is not BAD, but neither is it good. I need to work on it some more. Some of this was for sure over my head.

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@DrGuitar1, Except that I don’t play perfect either! :wink: Your post wasn’t a light read for me so skipped to save it for later read. It’s over my head if I were to quote @Shaky_loves_banjo, but you always explain it well for a newbie so I will definitely read it, maybe later in the day today.

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I’m sorry. In an effort to be quickly clear, I sometimes am quickly confusing.

Music theory has always been an interest of mine. I was especially interested in music theory I could use (rather than spending massive energy on figured bass and writing fugues).

This is why I joined this site years ago. Ben is an excellent player and watching him play has allowed me to analyze his playing and learn lots of info on bluegrass soloing. Unfortunately, I definitely know more than I can easily play, especially at a decent speed, but knowledge has always attracted me. And as much as I love learning, I am just as happy to share. So please forgive my excitement when a subject I love comes up and I get a little wordy. And if you think there is anything I have shared peaks your interest and you want clarification, just ask and I will do my best. :+1:

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@DrGuitar1, I hadn’t thought about the dim7 chords resolving any one of 4 ways. I am looking forward to playing around with that. It sounds like it might be a useful arrow in the quiver for things like working my way between keys in between songs. Thanks for that!

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Thanks for taking the time in this space. Valuable information and refreshment of memory. Takes me back to college Jazz Band and music theory classes, but the “physics” of chord structure are well worth a regular review. Appreciate it.

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