Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Lost melody

#1

This will be a bit long, but I think the background is important I mostly play clawhammer, sometimes two finger, never three. Old-time rather than bluegrass though we play many of the same songs. Old-time does have a different format. A big thing is that the melody dominates or should.

A while back I did Chris Coole’s “clawhammer rolls” workshop and didn’t do much with it. Not Scruggs rolls, but something that serves the same purpose using basic strum, drop thumb and double thumb which clawhammer players use. I just took “Inside Cabin Camp: Jam Survival with Kristin Benson”, a very worthwhile workshop that perked up my interest in rolls. And now, the issue…

The space between notes is as much a part of the melody as the notes. Melodic rhythm that rides along the 4:4, 3:4, 7:8, etc. timing. Rolls, as I understand them, fill all space and hide the melody’s rhythm. It’s one of the things that has kept me away from bluegrass - I can’t hear the melody most of the time. I didn’t write all that as criticism, or the rile anyone up. It leads to this question.

How do you not (badly) lose the melody while rolling or is that the nature of the beast? I’m not thinking of playing someone’s carefully constructed tab but using it in a jam session in the spirit of Kristin and Ben’s lesson. I understand that the melody note is often in the chord, but not always. The issue I’m addressing is the loss of melodic rhythm when you put something in all the pauses. I’d like to use this in an old-time setting and remain welcome. Ideas?

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#2

Disclaimer: I’ve never played old-time banjo, and my experience comes from playing Scruggs-style banjo in a bluegrass context.

I’ve run into timing issues when arranging rolls over certain (usually more syncopated or complex) melodies as well. Sometimes, a roll will simply not sound great over a melody and I usually switch it out for a different roll or a pinch/other ornament (or I will modify the roll in a less conventional way). Sometimes this requires a pause, and it’s all about balancing accurate melodic phrasing with bluegrass drive. In driving or traditional vocal bluegrass, however, a banjo kickoff or break can usually sacrifice some melodic accuracy in favor of vocabulary and a consistent sound. Fiddle tunes often require a stronger melodic focus, and because of this are often played in the melodic style (think Munde, Keith, Fleck).

I will probably more easily gravitate towards rolling to the song’s beat than its melody… but it does depend on the song. Old-time is definitely more similar to fiddle tunes than “mash” bluegrass.

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#3

To add to @Michael_Mark’s comments. Dynamics are huge. You can often roll in the spaces between the melody, but if one isn’t diligent in using dynamics, the melody does get lost. Also, I think one of the most powerful things you can often play is a rest. Tasteful and impactful rests are often part of what separates the great players from others.

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#4

When arraigning a song myself from scratch I find that I use a good bit of quarter note pinches combined with single note quarters and throw in some rolls where the long melody notes are. Working the melody into continuous rolls is pretty hard for me unless I TAB it all out.

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#5

The older I get, the more I love the melody, and the less eighth notes I play per measure.

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#6

And he often puts those eighths in unexpected places :+1::grin:

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#7

Thank you all for your thoughts. Since clawhammer rolls 1/8th notes are drop thumb, chanterelle in place of pull-offs and hammer-ons, it might be easier to leave out an 1/8th note, after all the work of learning the rolls, than my initial thinking. This forum is a good resource. Much appreciated.

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