Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Key of D or Key of A (Dorian)?

#1

Morning All!

This question came up in the jam group of newer payers like myself, and left us all scratching our heads. We’re working on playing a coherent version of Squirrel Hunters and here is the dilemma:

  • The version I have is in the key of D (5th string spiked at 7th), that to the best of my understanding goes V IV I (A/G/A/D)

  • The version the fiddlers were going off of the sheet music says A (Dorian) and with the opening (notes? chord?) in E minor.

  • I did make the observation when playing the back-up down the neck of the close proximity of the A chord to the Em chord (the back-up focuses on the 1st and 5th chordal tones).

So is it Key of D, or Key of A? Will playing off our different versions clash (so far we’ve just gone around the circle once playing the melody individually)? Any advice from you experts out there is appreciated.

#2

I most often hear it played as you play it—A/G/A/D (This would not be A Dorian but A Mixolydian. Dorian has a minor third, but Mixolydian has a major third, and the melody of Squirrel Hunters contains the major third of A. Both modes have a flatted seventh).

More on this

You can debate about whether this is the key of A or the key of D. The A Mixolydian scale and the D Major (Ionian) scale are the exact same scale, only starting and ending on different notes. So because the song uses the D Major scale and often ends on the key of D, you can argue it’s in the key of D. I hear it as the key of A Mixolydian, because A just constantly feels like home throughout the chord progression.

It’s the same debate as whether “Sweet Home Alabama” is in the key of D or G:
https://youtu.be/DVPq_-oJV5U?si=jfcPwfcTvb6Zo303

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I’d need to know what it sounds like. Was the melody the same between your version and theirs? Were the chords the same other than this?

In the Special C version, they actually play an Emin as the opening chord, but the rest of the tune is the same. Old fiddle tunes are often like this, with people putting different chords in different places as the tune has made its way to different regions.

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#3

Here’s the sheet music for the fiddlers. After reading the fine print I can see that there are so many variations! I appreciate the explanation and reply!

Squirrel%20Hunters%20Fiddle
Squirrel Hunters Fiddle.jpg1125×1919 173 KB

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#4

That makes sense. Essentially you’ll just have to decide as a group how you want to play it. The melodies are very similar, one difference being that the sheet music uses a C natural instead of a C# (which would be the major third of A).

The main difference that would create clash in a jam session is playing different chords from each other. If you get on the same page with chords, you’ll sound pretty good!

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#5

I am glad @Michael_Mark was familiar with the tune, nice job. The “Em (Am)” notation for the chord at the start is how I have seen alternate chords identified. My guess is this is indicating what MM said where you use the Em first time through and Am each time thereafter.

If I were uncertain if someone was going to use a C or C#, I’d play an A5 chord (no C or C# in there).

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#6

Another important point; I hear a 3rd-less A chord (like Asus2) played a lot in this tune as well. The tune (as I usually hear it) is in A Major and not A minor, but it still sounds more fitting played with a more ambiguous A chord like Asus2.

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