@MicahE628 Amen. We are not climbing up the ladder to God- we ask Him to come down and pull us up to Him.
Heartbreaking
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So are you telling us that you donāt sin anymore now that youāre saved?
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Where does it say you have to āacceptā in the text of the verses that you quote! 
For example, if I were to quote out of context, to support my point, here is Romans 5:15, "15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. " meaning sin and death entered by one man Adam, you did not accept it or receive it, likewise why should accept or receive the free gift? It leaves automatic. Doesnāt it.
So my point here is, you have to look at it in total. Or at least you have to take the whole epistle or book and try to understand the meaning, not in isolation.
Uh, it says āNOT as the offenceā¦ā
So letās take this back to the very simple for a bit. How does a sinner on his way to Hell get saved?
āNotā is to show the contrast. Sin/death comes in, sin/death goes out. āSoā is to show the similarity, the nature of how it comes and goes out. Anyway, let us not sidetrack. My point was the verses that you quoted only meant every one was saved no matter what. You canāt interpret bible verses like that.
Ok letās deal with the extremely clear verses in the Bible and stop playing semantics and word games. Where in the Bible does it say, āBelieve on the Lord Jesus Christ AND keep His commandments, and thou shalt be saved?ā
Michael/Micah,
To your questions on keeping from sinning or sinner getting savedā¦ I posted the below earlier in this thread. Here goes againā¦
What one needs to do here?
- Accept the true gospel dispensed by his commissioned preachers from repenting and believing. It makes one perfect .
- Hear his words from his appointed preachers/teachers. The true word sanctifies one! It keeps one perfect.
The key is highlighted. Thatās all one need to do, in a nutshell!
You donāt search you preachers/pastors and also not according to your liking. Godās promise is this. And you listen to his sent.
Jeremiah 3:15
15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
John, where in the Bible are your points supported? The Bible says that all we need to do to be saved is trust in him for atonement.
Here we goā¦
John 12:48
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
You know what Jesus word is?
Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
You know what Jesusā help in achieving this is?
Ephesians 4:11-13,
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
So basically you should be in good hands!
It is unfortunate church has lost focus, it has become den of robbers, but God is gracious, he is putting it back on track before his judgment!
Iāll catch you guys later!
See you adding to it! Who said it is your faith? When it says āthrough faithā, it is Jesusā faith! But I really need to go. Later.
@jmonickaraj1 The Bible is referring to a sanctified walk with Christ in those passages, NOT salvation. When you say that Jesusā word is to be perfect, you are ignoring the context of all the other verses in which Jesus said that belief in His finished work is the way to be saved. See how easy it is to take verses out of context. For example:
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Go, and do thou likewise.
That thou doest, do quickly.
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Well John, I feel it is not worth my time to argue anymore. We are clearly not going to agree. It is a dangerous thing to think that you have to be perfect in order to be saved. Yes, we are being perfected, but we still have human nature, and we are still going to sin. Of course we should strive for perfection! I will be praying for you. It was good to have a discussion about it.
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John 5:24:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Nothing about keeping commandments.
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John, I feel that I was too abrupt. I am not trying to point fingers at you. I am still interested to see where this discussion goes.
I think that the church has gotten loose on the āgraceā idea. Just because we are under āgraceā doesnāt mean that we can do anything and it be ok. But we are still saved only by the blood of Jesus! We are still called to live a life for Jesus in every way we can. If thatās what you mean by the church falling away, I agree with you.
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Btw, who are the commissioned and sanctified preachers/teachers?
If those are the requirements, do you consider yourself saved? And if so, did you achieve that by your own efforts and obeying Jesusā commandments?
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Same here
That what I meant to say, I just didnāt come off like that.
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Michael, you have not proved me wrong that I quoted out of context. You have ample time to do so. Get help from whoever you get teachings from. Come up with their name and we will expose them!
What is perfect in that context is this. When God makes sun to rise, it rises on both good and evil people. When God makes it to rain, it rains on both good and evil people. So when you love, not just your friends but your enemies too. When you salute, not just your friends but your enemies too. Doing likewise, or doing whatever Jesus taught, is what is considered perfect. Being without blame in love is what is perfect!
Check out Matthew 5:43-48.
Jesusā word means Jesusā commandments. Hearing his word means understanding and accepting his word with an intent to keep it. The opposite is, not understanding, or ignoring, or rejecting his word.
What that means is, if you say you believe on God, you listen to or take heed to whatever Jesus say. Because as Paul says in Hebrews 1:1,2, Godās voice is now exclusive in Jesusā word.
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, ā¦
Uhh, you quoted from two different books for oneā¦
How about this word from Jesus?
John 10:1:
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Oh and also your second statement is kinda harsh. Just sayinā.