Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Figure out timing from listening

#1

I am trying to follow the process from the lesson about how to build solos from the beginner guitar list
https://banjobenclark.com/lessons/how-to-build-solos-guitar-beginner
I found a video of a jam for Gonna Settle Down. I enjoy playing with this video almost every day. I’m trying to come up with a solo I can play.
So, the first step is to figure out the melody and I have done this (or at least something close to it), but my melody version has a lot of inconsistency with the timing.
It’s going so fast; how can you listen and figure out if it should be a quarter note or an eighth note? How do you figure out timing from listening?

Verse & Chorus https://youtu.be/Sz7_cYpgshM?t=76 Time 1:16 – 2:00
Instrumental https://youtu.be/Sz7_cYpgshM?t=117 Time 2:00 – 2:20

My attempt to figure out the melody https://www.tunelessons.com/Tab/GoAja6wo

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#2

My opinion, FWIW:
You don’t want to have to think “eighth note”or “quarter note” at any time when you’re actually playing the song. It’s good to know these concepts and be able to describe them, but when you’re playing you just have to feel this. Don’t listen to the melody and go “is this an eighth note?” Instead just sing the melody in your head and play along with it. Keep the steady up-and-down groove in your right hand (which will be eighth notes). Once you’ve played (and played along in your head while listening) enough, note values take care of themselves.

I recently transcribed Tony Rice’s second break on “Tipper” and there’s a little spacey section with some unconventional timing. It drove me crazy trying to figure out how many eighth notes there were, how many rests, and put them in the right spots on the tab. But I could play the section on my guitar just fine. That’s feel vs. knowledge.

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#3

I am trying to next work out where I can put in the scale licks, so don’t I need to know how much time I have to get that in?

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#4

If you want to insert a set lick into the solo you’ll have to make sure you start it in the exact right place, which can be tricky. Usually I find it easier to start it whenever, and then modify it somehow/end it early if need be. Or, modify the next phrase. It sort of comes with just being used to doing it.

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#5

Greg why don’t you just put on the melody you wish to play over, say is in the key of G, and then just play along with it and throw in what you know and build from there. Like others have said, you won’t be able to process the quarter and eighth notes, while you are playing. You can play a few notes, stop and pause, then play a few of them faster. Is no right or wrong here. You’re going to adjust to how much time you lend to each note on the fly.

I remember going through what you are going through now. I was jamming with some more advanced players so was self-conscious to say the least. I was at the point where I could play a few licks, but my nerves got to me, where I started doing a stuttered staccato type of thing that was unintentional. The guys I was playing with told me it sounded pretty cool, and to keep doing that. Was a trial-and-error thing.

It’s all experimental. Just keep reaching and experimenting. The other thing is something that Banjo Ben had talked about. You can use the scale as a template, but you don’t want to get in the habit of just playing the scale forward and then backwards as a means of jamming. Notice how the songs Ben has presented color outside the lines

What maybe you could do Greg is to get with another person who has experience and tell them what you are trying to do. Thats how I got my start. Could be a friend, or could do a skype session with someone, to where you have that on-the-spot real time communication. That way they can point the things you are asking as you go.

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#6

Clicked on the link Gonna Settle Down just to check out the song. I don’t know what your setup is, if you can filter certain stuff out, or play certain sections in a loop. If you can do all that, then great you have what you need. Ben has lots of tracks with just the instrumentals that are great for what you are looking to do.

If there is a song such as the one you are talking about, that is not in Ben’s repertoire, and you just want the instrumentals, I would suggest Strum Machine. You can type in what you want to bring up the song you want to play, just so happens, Gonna Settle Down is included. If doesn’t bring up the song you want, then is easy to create it. I mean easy easy. Then it has a filter, so you get to hear only the instruments you want as your backing track. Can set to any key or speed, or play select sections in a loop.

Is like 50 bucks a year. Is nothing to compete with Ben’s site, would just act as a supplement. From what I gather you are worried about not getting ahead or behind in the song. The backing track is your guide that gives you your chords to follow, so that way you always know where you’re at. I am thinking that everything going on in the song with vocals and all is what’s throwing you off. Maybe? The backing track filter sounds like the tool that may help simplify things.

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#7

All,

I like this advice as it conveys the idea to LISTEN. While the genre is different, jazz sometimes features phrases and passages where the tempo is more of a “suggestion” and the music flows like a river through the phrase… where marking time to try to duplicate would be EXTREMELY complicated… but just listening to the flow and timing makes it easier.

Another example I can think of IS occasionally found in bluegrass because I have heard Ben and others discussing it… either pushing a beat or dragging a beat.

Again, if you try to chart it or mark time, it probably would sound mechanical or robotic… but listening has a natural feel.

Just some random thoughts to support the idea…

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#8

@Bhive see if this helps:

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#9

@BanjoBen thanks for taking time to make a video .

I wasn’t really focused on the tab, but I was trying to write down the notes as I figured them out for later. My hand drawn tab line were to sloppy to use so I just googled “free online tab creator” and I just used the first one easy enough to figure out how to use… it’s not that great.
Because I know work, christmas or whatever will distract and someday soon I won’t be working on it everyday so I will forget what I had figured out. I’ve learned something from just trying to write a tab out for the first time.

Like you said in the video it’s the timing that I am scrappin’ with. That was my original question, though maybe I was not articulating it well. What you suggested here will help me to concentrate on figuring out where each measure starts and ends. I had not thought of making my own backing track. I think I can do that and slow it down as I need.

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#10

Keep me posted, let me help where I can!

#11

I took a stab at it from Tony Rice album/performance. I need to listen more to fully get the melody.

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#12

Here what I came up with for a backing track.
Before going to much further can you tell me if this is the right chord progression? (Is that what to call all of the chord changes?) I notice in the jam video they usually put in two extra measures between the first 8 (sorry I meant 16) measures and then the repeat of those measures. I think the person singing can wait as long as he wants before singing the next verse. Is that right? I did not put in any extra measures.
Since this is not a fiddle tune, do you still call it an A part and a B part?

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#13

Hi Greg.
Good questions!
Yes you have the chord progression right.

In my experience:
In songs (singing) the parts are usually referred to as “Verse” and “Chorus”
Lettered Parts are normally reserved for tunes (instrumentals)

The breaks in Gonna Settle Down are normally taken on the Verse part, which is once through the whole progression you’ve wrote out in your video…

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