Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Fast Rhythm

#21

I struggle pretty bad when the speed gets up there. Most of the time I try to keep a pretty loose wrist, but when the speed gets up there my arm gets stiff and my wrist locks, almost in a downward position. I just can’t keep my wrist snapping freely when the rhythm gets that fast.

The thing that helps me the most is to shorten my strumming motion. I try not to have a big Pete Townsend follow through. That’s helping on the rhythm and the leads.

In the last month I have switched pick shapes from a pick with a very sharp point, to a pick with a more rounded point (close to your Golden Gate, Larry), and I have noticed a change in both speed and tone, even though both picks were the same thickness. I swithched from a Bluechip TD60 to a Bluechip TPR60. Still getting use to the bigger triangle shape since I have always been a standard teardrop user. It would be nice if they would make a standard teardrop with a more rounded point. I think getting a pick that flows through the strings and has good grip is a big part of it for me.

Good thread, I like hearing what you guys are trying.

#22

— Begin quote from "TNTaylor414"

I try not to have a big Pete Townsend follow through. That’s helping on the rhythm and the leads.

— End quote

I have not tried the Townsend windmill picking technique in a bluegrass setting. I might have to do that. I bet the old folks would be impressed. :smiley:

I too tighten up when I get above my comfort zone. I feel it in my shoulder, and I have a hard time loosening it. Shortening your stroke sounds similar in it’s effect to my way of thinking about making my motion more wristy. Oddly enough, I kind of do the opposite of shortening the stroke when picking things out at speed, I try to ensure I play through the string (and it seems to help me). Why can’t this just be easy?

I have a TPR-50 and like it. The rounded tip does darken the sound a bit. I have been thinking of trying a CT-55, but I haven’t been in too big of a hurry.

#23

Yes sir, kick your stool out in the middle of the jam circle, jump up on it and give 'em a few windmills. As long as you keep that Bluegrass poker face, no one will think your showing off. :smiley:

Yeah, the TPR is warmer and fuller sounding, alot less bright. After a week with the TPR, the TD sounds very bright and thin to my ears. I like that I can get my fingers down closer to edge of the pick. I also like the sound I get from hitting the strings with the back of my fingernail on my index finger while strumming.

#24

— Begin quote from "TNTaylor414"

I also like the sound I get from hitting the strings with the back of my fingernail on my index finger while strumming.

— End quote

Haha, my index fingernail on my right hand is worn at an angle from hitting the strings with it in front of the pick. I tried to make an effort to fix this on several occasions over the past few years then finally said “ah the hell with it” and let it hit the strings when playing rhythm.

No doubt that the TPR type pick gives one a darker sound. I think this style of pick gives one the “true sound” that is coming from the guitar. I don’t much care for the “thin” sound that comes from a pointy pick.

Good conversation…sounds like we all are about at the same level in “sucking at guitar”. :laughing:

#25

I have an old rock fake book and it has many rhythm patterns but no bluegrass patterns does any one one know where that could be found as I would like to learn as many patterns as I can and build on those so I can get with when the need arises . I knew a player that could do those patterns with out so much as a hiccup. he was very good at that .I have lost touch with him though and would like to find the patterns for blue grass,

#26

Hey Welder,
I don’t know of a rhythm patterns compilation, but if you haven’t done so, I’d go through Ben’s basic and intermediate rhythm series. They build from a very simple to fairly ornate rhythm patterns. By mixing and matching the various elements, you will have quite a variety:
banjobenclark.com/videos/45/ … hm-series/
banjobenclark.com/videos/47/ … hm-series/

#27

As I’ve got better at complex strumming patterns, I think I tend to over play sometimes. I feel like I have to purposely scale things back to quarter note strums so I don’t suck up too much of the sonic space. Anyone else notice this or is it just my imagination?

#28

— Begin quote from "ldpayton"

As I’ve got better at complex strumming patterns, I think I tend to over play sometimes. I feel like I have to purposely scale things back to quarter note strums so I don’t suck up too much of the sonic space. Anyone else notice this or is it just my imagination?

— End quote

Me too. I find too that it often just becomes “noise.” All downs with occasional punctuated upstrokes adds to the punch where too much is… too much.
I am trying to get more dynamic as well. I listen to Tony Rice’s rhythm, and there is so much going on just at the edge of hearing, then he really makes little runs and transitions pop. Been listening alot lately to “Skaggs and Rice” and their rhythm is awesome… it’s hard to tell which instrument is doing what sometimes (in a good way).

#29

I guess part of my problem is that when I practice by myself a fuller, more complex rhythm sounds good, but when I get in a jam and everyone is vying for space I have to make sure I scale things back a little. It just comes down to being a good listener -something I need to practice.

#30

You hit it on the head for me… listening is an art and takes work. More often than not, when I am playing, I am by myself… I have to make a conscious effort to switch gears when more people get into the mix. When you get people listening and working off of each other, I think that’s when magic happens. At some jams on some songs, I just hang back and don’t play much that would even be audible, as I didn’t have anything to add (sometimes there is already too much of what I am playing in the mix without me). If I could work in those little musical punctuation marks at appropriate times, that’s about the best I can do in those situations.

#31

I guess some things you just can’t learn alone in the woodshed.

#32

what is the cut off for speed pickers , it is a thing that grows on you I guess but I am the type that likes to hear the music not how fast it can be played. I downloaded a blk mnt rag tef file from flat pickers hang out and it was set at 330 beats man that is just to fast to be able to enjoy it . I ran it through different speeds and found it was more enjoyable at about 200 beats and very nice at 160 . It is like the guy who said " My amplifier goes to eleven:" so who cares! I appreciate the articulation but when listening to music I prefer a slower approach . Years ago there was a video on you tube that had a fellow who used face contortions while playing , it was so funny I actually had tears running down my face from laughing so hard . I have a label that I can print out that has the numbers for an amp to 11 . I have that on my little cube from Roland, one of the best small amps made . 20 hours of play on six AA batteries and a adapter also. it has amp modeling and all the effects. I really like the acoustic model on it . I am not saying to inhibit the playing with no facial expressions but some just carry it to the ends of the earth. And the guys who like speed, keep on doing that and to thy own self be true.

#33

I like fast music, I like slow music. As long is it is good, I like it. I like listening to great players put the hammer down. The funny thing is, the great players often sound like they are playing slower than they are. Something about being silky, smooth and effortless gives the illusion that what they are playing is much easier than it sounds. It’s kind of odd, but I think really great players typically play stuff and make it sound easy while chumps like me play something easy and it sometimes sounds difficult.

I remember when I played in a rock band and I learned right hand tapping… some people said things to indicate they thought that must of been really difficult. The truth be known, it was very easy to do. Randy Rhodes would pick out the arpeggios smoothly instead of tapping, and there is obviously much more skill involved with that approach.

I kind of forgot where I was going with this post. However, I spent the time to type it, so there it is. Feel free to laugh at my wandering mind.

#34

I think playing fast for the sake of playing fast can sound kind of mechanical sometimes and is probably best kept in the woodshed. On the other hand, if pickers can manage to express themselves musically at fast tempos, I admit it is pretty impressive.

#35

— Begin quote from "mreisz"

the great players often sound like they are playing slower than they are.

— End quote

Mike hit the nail on the head here. Kenny Smith is a prime example of this. Try to learn some of his songs or even some breaks. To just listen it’s like, “I think I can do that”, but then as I try to actually learn it, It’s way faster than it sounds & of course I don’t get real far with it.

Another good example (and he doesn’t get enough recognition) is James Alan Shelton. On his Songs For Greta cd, I slowed down the first track “North Fork of the Holston” & was able to pretty much learn it note for note but not nearly up to speed. That song sounds alot slower than it really is & I believe like Mike, that it’s due to being so polished. Then I found an old Flatpicking Guitar magazine that I had with that song featured after I had already learned it. :confused:

A super fast song only sounds good if it’s played clean, tasteful & not mechanical like Larry said. Not many players can do that right.There’s plenty of player’s that don’t play with extreme speed and are considered great musicians, so there’s hope for us yet.

And of course there’s Tony… what more needs to be said.

J.W.