Discuss the Banjo lesson: How to Play Rolling Backup for Fiddle Tunes & More!
Ok so the chart is in the key of D. I’m assuming you want to play it in A (for the collaboration), so everything should be transposed up a fifth.
The E7 is your 2 chord- the equivalent of an A7 chord in the G position. You don’t really need to play the added 7th, but you can experiment with whatever sounds good to you. (same goes for G7, which is the 4 chord)
The B7 should actually be a B minor. B minor is the 6 minor of D, so an E minor is the 6 minor of G, which will end up being an E minor capo 2, which is F# minor.
Thanks, I hope I get it😳
You can do it! 
Ahhhhhh I appreciate your unfounded confidence!
That example has more chords in it than the Jim Reeves version (which is really straight and in C) actually does.
I just finished watching this lesson and something that Ben said about the level two arrangement really stuck out to me and I quote
“There’s nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with playing that complexity with Ricky Scaggs or Sam Bush. I mean, if you played that in time, if you played that strong, they would say, ‘That is some good backup’. Okay,…so just calm down.”
It just kind of hit me because Ben’s right and I know he’s right because when I think about other banjo players playing backup that I listen to, I can now hear that’s all there really doing too. Now I understand and could possibly do, (with baby steps) what their doing because Ben put this awesome lesson together. Thanks @BanjoBen for another great, eye-opening lesson! 
P.S. Could you maybe stock a shirt at your store that says, “So just calm down”. I would totally buy one! 
Backup is something I have struggled with for a very long time. This lesson is great, and I understand most of it (need to put in some time with it).
However, how do you ‘practice’ this? I would love to have a regular jam group to play with, but that just isn’t happening right now. In the Spring and Summer I can usually find some jamming festivals to hit, but for the rest of the year I mostly just work up solos alone
I would love to be able to just put bluegrass on spotify and play along, but by the time I figure out the key of a song, get my capo in a good spot, retune, and start working on it the song is over.
Hi @bradofsteel82 Brad 
to @BanjoBen 's Forum. Let me just reassure you right off the bat your not alone when you said “Backup is something I have struggled with for a very long time.” Thankfully I caught Ben’s attention several years ago and pleaded with him to create lessons on backup where there had been scant lessons before.
The key to practicing Ben’s lessons are the TEF Files, to use these you will need either TEFView or TablEdit to open and play the TABs.
Best to start out slow, learn the mechanics and gradually build speed. Try to find a jam group near you or play along with videos on YouTube. We are ALL hoping that Ben will add Fiddle Lessons to the new website later this year then we will have the opportunity to practice with the fiddle lesson previews.
Fiddle tunes are generally played in the Key of A, D and G @Fiddle_wood Dave Long with jump in and correct me if I’m wrong. So that should help narrow the search to identify the Key Signature.
@Archie - Thanks for your reply. I’ve been using TablEdit for many years, and I think that’s part of the problem, in that I’ve always been tied to tab for learning/memorizing. It’s really to the point where even songs I have memorized and play regularly I ‘see’ the tab in my mind rather than hearing the tune. I recently set the banjo down for several months and played with learning guitar, and I think that may have helped me listen to the melody. When I picked the banjo up again even my wife could tell that everything sounded cleaner… but that’s a bit off the backup topic…
Following tab for learning backup seems counter-intuitive. I can play it, I can play along with it, but throw another song with a different chord progression in and I don’t know how to translate it without meticulously mapping it out first.
I guess the answer might be to find a tune I like to hear on YouTube (or any music site) and play it on repeat and try different things with backup, as it may take me a few plays just to get the chord progression down. I think what I really need is some reassurance that if I do something like that it will eventually get easier to the point where I can figure it out in the first verse and jam ‘on the fly’.
Hi Brad, I hear what you say and I can only respond by saying I have had a lot of success using TablEdit. First I use it as an aid to visually learn the mechanics of the tune. Then I put on my earphones and play along. If you can step away from TAB and just play everything by ear then you have a great gift. I wish you well going forward.
you bet it will! I have a challenge for you. Watch this lesson and get familiar with the first couple licks, that’s all. Don’t overdo it: https://banjobenclark.com/lessons/boogie-woogie-backup-1st-edition-banjo
Then, take Blueridge Cabin Home on YouTube and slow it down and practice throwing those licks in, don’t forget to capo 3!: https://youtu.be/htxGouge9-g
Let me know your experience and I’ll address the roadblocks as you go. This challenge will be moved to here: Blue Ridge Cabin Home Backup Challenge
Hey Brad!
I love this topic, and I think this is the area that I’ve grown the most in over my whole experience with playing music. The banjo, especially backup, was the most evident manifestation of this. What you said at the end–
Is EXACTLY what my goal was, and I don’t want to sound prideful, but I’m “proud” to say that I’ve achieved that goal with a large amount of bluegrass material. These are sort of the things I’ve learned about how to grow in that area:
FIRST:
Never, ever tell yourself that you won’t be able do it. Progress will probably be really hard at times, and really easy at other times. Don’t let anything discourage you from learning.
So the moment when the backup sort of “clicked” for me was when I saw Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver live. I was paying close attention to the banjo player and noticed that he was using a backup roll that sounded similar to Ben’s “Utility Roll” that Tony Wray had taught. (That lesson is amazing- check it out here)
So I became more and more familiar with a version of the Utility Roll that I thought sounded simple, but really good, and realized that Scruggs-style backup, particularly down the neck, is actually waaay less complicated than I thought it was. A lot of times, less fancy licks is actually better, since you don’t want to distract the listener from the soloist or singer who’s currently in the spotlight. So it actually sounds really nice with just a few simple rolls and licks. I think most of the time I’m using a forward roll coupled with a 2-5 slide on the low D string. Every now and then, I like to throw in a reverse roll to “reset” the backup, which is usually needed when changing chords or emphasizing certain beats. Then over C, I like to transition with either a square roll landing on the low D string or a forward roll landing on the B string, sometimes with the high D string to get the E note. For D, a forward-reverse roll with the “X position” lick (I’m not exactly sure what it’s called) is usually what I play (my D chord backup is my weakest backup link).
Most, if not all, of what I’m referencing can be seen from Russ Carson’s POV vids, which are great for learning backup IMO:
(That Doin’ My Time is TOUGH to keep your backup interesting on, because it hangs on chords so long.)
Anyway, if you can become familiar with even a quarter of what Russ is doing in those vids, you’ll be in amazing shape. Learning when and where to play these licks, in my opinion at least, is something that’s better learned by listening and experimenting than by following a chart on paper.
Russ said in a Q&A video on his channel that the #1 thing that helps him improve at banjo in general is just having the instrument in your hands as much as possible. AKA becoming familiar with it, knowing what it does without having to think much about it. He also adds that playing along with recordings, click tracks, etc. are what he recommends for learning how the music behaves- it breathes, going in and out, emphasizing certain parts, etc.
Ben nailed it with his challenge above. Pick a song, even with just 1, 4, and 5 like Blue Ridge Cabin home, and apply the things you know to it. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and figuring out how to apply even limited phrases to a song is a LOT of fun!
The more you listen, the more you play while listening, the more you pick up on things is what I’ve learned. I think what makes this kind of learning so fun is that it’s the most hands-on, experimental, and subjective form of learning. Everyone plays their backup a little differently, everyone has slightly different tone, and it adds to the unique character of everyone’s playing. Once you are familiar with a certain amount of objective aspects (e.g. timing, certain phrases like the G lick, chords, etc.) the entire banjo world opens up for you to explore and play what YOU gravitate towards. It’s “choose-your-own banjo adventure”!
I can’t wait to see what people come up with for Ben’s BRCH challenge!
@Michael_Mark the boogie woogie licks Ben suggested are great and I’m definitely going to work those up. Been seeing variations of those a lot as I’ve been working UTN breaks (Foggy Mountain Special comes to mind).
But, these utility rolls you linked are much closer to what I was looking for.
I’ve been playing this thing off and on (mostly on) for 15+ years and backup has eluded me. It’s time to fix that.
I’ve been working on backup since the last camp. I can only add two simple ideas to the tips mentioned above. Do you know the chord progression for the song you are learning?
1 1 4 4
5 5 1 1
And Can you hum the melody?
I don’t always know the chord progression to what I’m learning, and I recognize this is a problem (and I’m working to fix it now).
I can usually follow the melody for most lyrical tunes, and I can hum something along with more of the instrumentals I like, but not sure if its truly the melody.
I agree,one of the best lessons for backup I’ve tried and just what I’m looking for. This will help me work into playing banjo with my old time fiddlers circle jam which I haven’t felt confident to do backup on banjo. I have only felt confident enough on my guitar. Good job Ben this also answered lots of why’s
Ben,
I’m having trouble doing your suggestion of trying to work out walking between chords on fiddle tunes. It just seems like I’m not getting it. Sure, G to D to C is easy but all these fiddle tunes have short measures and go to F, A, and like to skip around with 1/2 measures and things, not to mention alternate tunings. Anyway, kind of getting lost at step 1. I did watch the ladder video you made and it’s helpful.
I’m not too concerned about hitting those half measures. Or if I do, I might just give it a nod by playing one note in the chord amidst my roll. For instance, if a half measure of A, I might just play the 2nd fret of the 2nd string amidst my other open strings. Does that make sense?
Give me an example of a fiddle tune.
Thanks Ben. So one like Blackberry Blossom. It’s a popular one at jams but one that I feel completely lost on because of all the quick changes.