Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Bluegrass vs Olde Time, resonator vs open-back

#1

Ben and Team:

I’m pretty new to this, but I’m happy to report that I’m truckin’ right along on the banjo track. I can’t say enough how much I enjoy the lessons and the teaching materials. Eventually I will upgrade my banjo. My Deering Goodtime Artisan 2 is fine for now, but I have not decided whether I will go for another resonator banjo or an open back.

Boils down to this: do you think the resonator and open-back are limited to bluegrass and clawhammer, respectively?

I’ve heard some folks to say that you can play either style on either banjo, and I’m sure that’s true. If the sound projection is the key selling point in a bluegrass resonator banjo, that’s not an issue for me. I’m strictly a living room warrior for now. I look at, say, ol’ Pete Seeger with his long-neck open back banjo, and think ‘why not?’ I also like the idea of a lighter, more portable banjo that’s easier to travel with than a 15 pound mahogany log. However, I do want a quality, professional banjo that will last me for many years to come. Any recommendations?

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#2

If you found a resonator banjo you couldn’t live without and still wanted an open back I believe you can convert your good time to an open back. There is a kit to add a resonator to a open back good time. That being the case, I feel sure you could reverse the process by removing the flange. Perhaps that seems a little backwards, but is an option. Here are the instructions for the kit.

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#3

It is mostly that way in the professional world– an open-back banjo just will not have the powerful, driving tone of a resonator banjo. That tone that hits you like the crack of a baseball and bat, like a train ripping through the crisp mountain air… the banjo sound that provides the driving force behind the music of Flatt & Scruggs, the New South, the Bluegrass Album Band, and a plethora of other bluegrass bands… THAT sound undeniably belongs to the resonator banjo.

Likewise, the calming, effortless-feeling sound of clawhammer and old time– the sound that doesn’t “hit” you at all, but rather cradles your ear in the manner of a peaceful mountain river or a light morning rain- is less often found in a resonator banjo.

FWIW, even some resonator banjos remind me a lot more of an old-time banjo. Certain brands or types of resonator banjos are a lot more mellow and less driving– a lot different than the classic Mastertone sound. A Nechville will sound quite different from a Huber, for instance. They are both incredible brands, but they are catering to different styles.

All that being said, play what YOU enjoy, especially if you’re not catering to an audience.

One thing that I’ve found, though, is that extra loudness and projection are not just for the stage and the jam. It is SO addictive to sit and try to just pull every last iota of tone out of a powerful flathead banjo!

If you have an interest/passion for old time, you’ll probably enjoy trying your hand at clawhammer/old time, too. It’s really fun and interesting! Personally, I don’t think it’s for me, because I don’t have a passion for that type of music (at least, not at this point)… so I am just left saying of old-time, “It’s really fun and interesting!” :grin:

Now, if you like that crisp flathead resonator sound but want a lightweight banjo, there is sort of a “best of both worlds”… some banjo makers build flathead resonator banjos without a full-weight tone ring, which significantly reduces the weight. Some banjos, like the style 1, have a brass hoop; others just have a wood rim. Check out this vid from Russ Carson:

One of those banjos has a full weight tone ring, one has a brass hoop, and one has only a wood rim. Yet, they are still up for the task of providing driving, crisp tone… especially in the hands of Russ!

So a lot of your decision depends on your motivation for upgrading– e.g. do you want a new banjo for a different style of music, different sound quality, etc., or is your main motivation better playability or just bragging rights? :grin: (not that any of us have ever felt that motivation)

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#4

You can play all manor of things on the 5 String Banjo check these out
Not a blade of Bluegrass to be seen. Not a boom chucker chuck-in either.

So after checking all these out you’ll surely come to realise the limitations are not with the banjo whether it be open back or closed but the individual who picks and plucks the strings. These are fun to watch y’all Enjoy

Celtic

Classical

Bach with Bela

Bach with Jens Kruger

Classic Southern

Scott Joplin Jazz - Bill Knopf

John Philip Sousa Marches - Bill Knopf

More Sousa - Under the Double Eagle - Alan Munde

Mason Williams’ Classical Gas - Janna Kim

Gypsy Jazz Banjo

Jazz Banjo - Giant Steps - John Coltrane - Eli Gilbert

Spanish Fandango (or “Spanish Waltz”) - Matt Williamson

John McEuen Playing Classical Music on the Banjo

And the list and styles goes on and on. . .

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#5

Well, shut my mouth. :slight_smile:

Thanks for taking the time to send these. Some real gems in there. I especially liked “swallowtail jig.”

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#6

I plan on working on that one myself soon. Currently working on Mason’s Apron

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#7

It was interesting at Galax, there was so much old time AND bluegrass music. Half of each in the bands, banjo, and fiddle categories. The old time music just isn’t fun like the bluegrass. The bands rarely sing, and you just get bored. It doesn’t move you. I tried to tell myself I could like it, because I appreciate all acoustic music, but I just couldn’t love it like bluegrass!

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#8

I am an avid canoeist, and a similar question comes up. “I want to go places and have fun paddling my canoe, but I don’t want a heavy one.” It’s kinda the wrong question. The main purpose of a canoe is to float on the water, not be carried around on the land. So you should look for a canoe whose design fits your needs on the water.
Same is true with the banjo. First, you have a good banjo now, so learn as much on it as possible. Follow that Beginners Learning track, use the TEF files and have fun. Over time you will begin to better understand, and articulate, what qualities you want in a banjo.

I have a heavy banjo, but it doesn’t bother me because I play sitting down 90% of the time. Then the banjo is pretty much weightless. Sometimes I stand, just for the novelty, but I see a lot of professional banjo players sitting when they play. And look at all the people sitting in a symphony orchestra!
Instrument weight is not as important to me as instrument sound.

Here’s another odd observation. I have only recently started playing in front of other people. It’s usually met with every banjo joke & “Deliverance” reference you can imagine.
Once that’s over, I offer my banjo to anyone to hold. As soon as they realize how heavy it is, they regard the instrument with a whole new level of respect.

You are going to have sooooo much fun! :+1::grin:

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#9
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#10

Rhiannon Giddens playing “Julie”

I’m new to all this, but since watching Ken Burns’ documentary “Country Music,” I’ve been amazed by Rhiannon Giddens. This is what I mean when I talk about clawhammer.

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#11

Already am. I’m playing every day, and it amazes me how quickly some disparate chords and rolls can become semi musical in an hour of practice. Provides just enough gratification to keep me moving forward.

I haven’t played in public yet, but maybe I will do so someday. As for the Deliverance jokes, bring them on. Let those prettymouthed haters hate. Maybe ol’ Burt will back me up with his compound bow.

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#12

There is a difference between “playing” and “listening to” I would rather listen to Bluegrass, but since I have no chance of playing that tempo, so I found I enjoy playing with Old-Time, I like getting the chance to learn the song since it usually last for a while.

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#13

@desertmisanthrope, sorry for the late reply. I own a nice Nechville resonator banjo and an Ome open back. And in a couple weeks I’m getting a travel banjo (10” pot and two frets shorter neck) made by Dave Dillard at the Nashville Banjo Company. Dave is Ben’s clawhammer instructor at the camps. So here are my somewhat educated two cents. While resonator banjos can be used for clawhammer, they lack the sweet and deep resonance you can get out of a proper open back with a scoop at the base of the neck. I don’t think I would have continued pursuing clawhammer if my Nechville was my only banjo. I personally love using picks on my Ome open back as well, but it admittedly lacks the bluegrass sound and punch of a resonator banjo. But as I am also a living room only performer, the warmer bluegrass sounds appeal to me. So I’d recommend a good open back. Specifically I’d recommend Dave Dillard’s 12” Cumberland model. My Ome is a 12” and has a great deep resonance as a result. I believe both Ben and Katy Lou have a Cumberland from Dave Dillard. I love my Ome as well if you want to consider another quality open back build. Again, just my two cents.

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#14

Thanks for the advice. I’d call your two cents OME Wise. Get it? :smiley:

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#15

@Chad_K … funny! Obviously I don’t check the forum often enough. By the way, I picked up that 10” traveling banjo from Dave Dillard and it plays even better than I’d hoped. Many of the smaller banjos sound weak, but Dave’s is truly impressive. So I’d definitely recommend Dave’s 12” as a great Clawhammer model.

#16

these videos are WONDERFUL!!!

#17

Cool, I’ve actually got my eye on a Deering Vega Vintage Star, but that’s more of a long term goal. My Goodtime Artisan is perfectly fine for now. I’ll delay this dilemma for a while. Why buy a new banjo before I get decent chops? I’m still on the beginner track.

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