I agree with that one…original banjo solo for Cherokee Shuffle is tough! I can play most of it but had to punt and figure out something easier in a couple spots. Temperance Reel is another doozy.
Ben's Toughest Lesson
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Probably the hardest one relative to me would be a mandolin or guitar break, given that I’m not as proficient or comfortable on those instruments as I am on banjo. So far. the most advanced lesson I’ve accomplished would probably be either the advanced Salt Creek for banjo from 2009, or the advanced Old Joe Clark guitar break.
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I too found “Are you washed” to be the toughest among the guitar lessons. Neil somehow nailed it though!
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Many are now tough to me!!!
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I look at it a bit differently maybe.
I’d consider “build-a-break” and “backup” type lessons more challenging than a straight written break that can be memorised and spit back out.
Learning a piece as written is a machine-like process that simply takes time & repetition.
When we have to make choices, on the fly, what to play where to fit our playing to the chord progression, our thought process reaches a whole new level…this is a huge jump in difficulty for some…
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I would also say the finger style are you washed is extremely challenging.
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i rather struggle with slow songs like away in a manger, or silent night … you need so much feeling, and the timing is extremely important. but also songs like shenandoah breakdown, where i have to struggle with the speed very much … i can’t do that in a few days like @Mark_Rocka 
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I too used to wonder how Ben manages to keep up with it! 
When I say tough, I’m talking about achieving 70-80% of speed with some 90% accuracy, while Ben’s benchmark for himself ought to be 100% speed with 100% accuracy at all times!
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I agree that making decisions on your own is by far the most challenging for me too…But…the advance version of Wildwood Flower is kicking my butt right now too. I struggle with C position and crosspicking.
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I’m sure that 100% number is Ben’s goal, but if you’ve been to camp, you’ve probably heard him miss the mark. Did you happen to see his recent reply to Pete on relaxing while on stage? I can’t recommend it enough.
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Hi All,
Just seen Mark’s @Mark_Rocka post which always gets me looking. Been a lot of helpful threads and Forums over the last few weeks and admit that @Rich with his wayfaring stranger performance has really made me alter so many things I have been doing, mainly stopping me practice my mistakes such that I am good at them :). Must thank my son for that one as well.
But what I have really learnt is that is just to put up and play. Somebody will want to hear it. Its a forgiving forum (Generally ;)).
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This needs a special link, so we can watch it over and over, as needed…Which will be a lot.
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I have never seen this his video before! Cool Ben speaks out from his heart! It happens all the time to me, but I can’t imagine happening to Ben that his finger don’t work at times in pressure situation. At the end he asks what we think. I would probably say this, “Be ye perfect, as your father in heaven is perfect!”, so as to not compromise on his goal. But to be able to achieve your goal, you deal with the problem that stops you from doing that. That is, to have a desire deep inside to not give room for pride, and take it to God, so that God can take out your pride. You thus become perfect in the pride area. (Now you can’t boast you got rid of pride with your own will power!) And this should enable you to do at your full capacity - perfect or near perfect - even in front of your home crowd. I’m always for excellency, and not for mediocrity!
Ben, I have a tip for you. I don’t know if you tried this before or not, if it works for you or not. Just look at your daughter and smile before you play in your church. You should be relaxed to perform at better capacity. Because there will be always people envious - “rightfully” or wrongfully - that will have bearing on your playing.
Just some thoughts…
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All of Ben’s lessons have some challenges to them. I’d agree with the Cherokee Shuffle one. I downloaded it the other day to listen in the TEF player, just so I could hear a tune that I’m familiar with and what Ben’s version would sound like.
The toughest lesson for me is that I’m pretty sure that I’ll be able to play Ben’s version eventually - with a lot of practice and hard work - however I now know that I will never be able to think creatively about the music the way Ben does.
I may be stretching things but when I listen to Ben’s version it has a really pleasing honky tonk piano like sound that is not limited to the melody alone. The melody is still in there, but the music Ben’s wrapped around it is beyond my abilities to to imagine or create on my own. So I kind of think that I’ve seen the limits of my own playing. That maybe I’ll be able to sound a little more like Ben but I’ll never be able to improvise like him.
I am happy enough to just get better and to hopefully play well. I should also be able to work with Ben’s licks and pick up some of what he’s doing, so I shouldn’t sound too bad in the end and will still be able to have a lot of fun with my own level of improvising.
It was just a little strange to realize that I’d seen the horizon for my own playing - there’s plenty of good territory for me to explore and enjoy. But it really is up to the next generation to see what may beyond that horizon. Don’t get me wrong, I never imagined I’d be a pioneer of the music, but until recently I hadn’t even guessed at how far away my playing was from being the genuine article.
I’m really happy with all the lessons that I’ve looked and and used so far and I am making good enough progress for me, which is what I’d hoped for when I subscribed. My bluegrass playing plateaued quite a few years ago, so it’s been really refreshing to have all this new material and the new creative approaches to playing for me to investigate. Ben’s lesson’s are attainable and concise - so you can achieve what he plays in his demos - if you keep trying.
There are lots of tough lessons here - I hope that I can learn from them.
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Well I don’t know @BanjoBen well enough to speak for him, but I suspect what his real goal is is exactly what you said when you talked about learning some stuff from him and adding it to your own style of playing. It’s one thing to play the notes on the page just like him or anyone else, but the ability to really put your own feel into it is when the music and fun really happen. So I’m told at least haha. I always enjoy your insights!
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So many times I’ve wondered. "How the heck did Ben come up with that? It reminds of all the relatively simple but perfect sounding fills that Paul McCartney could come up with on most any instrument. Yes, I consider Ben to be on that level from a creativity standpoint.
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i have followed the mandolin syllabus in order and have no previous mandolin experience and currently the red apple rag has taken me the longest to nail down so far. the previous lessons i could play (up to speed) after a few weeks or less, and maybe would not have been that long but can only squeeze in half an hour to an hour of practice a day. but the red apple has been a fun challenge. i feel that song is a good combination of the skills I’ve picked up thus far in the syllabus. its the first song ive really had to slow way down and break down into chunks to hammer down the licks. so, to the original question of
i guess the answer is, my experience level matched with the speed of the song and amount of notes and trying to really play clean and give each note its voice.
that being said, ive almost got it…in the bag 
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Hi Treblemaker,
I agree with you wholeheartedly about Paul McCartney, who is often underrated as a musician - just being seen as the bass player in Beatles. His creative inventiveness and overall musicianship are taken for granted. He never made a big deal about his talent for composition, songwriting and melody. Though there are rumors that John Lennon was envious of Paul’s talent to pluck charming melodies from thin air - I think John may have even belittled Paul for not being raw and rock and roll enough. Being a bit too educated, polished and nice.
I should imagine if you were able to hear Ben freely improvise one of these tunes he would be able to astound you with what he can create and you would have no idea where he drew his ideas from.
What’s even more incredible is that what Ben presents to us are simply lessons. They are extremely good lessons, but they will not showcase Ben’s complete talent.
He’s spent a great deal of time working out a version of his playing that almost anyone could achieve with some hard work. He’s not trying to impress you with virtuosity or ego. He presents good technique and tasteful ideas.
Also teaching is hard - coming up with good lessons that will benefit players of all abilities takes a lot of thought and effort. So Ben as has a talent to distill important elements to his style of playing in an accessible way.
If I compare Tony Rice’s Homespun DVD or some Albert Lee’s DVDs - both of whom are amazing players it’s very hard to grasp what they are showing you and you really struggle to learn - I ended up guessing and making stuff up - which can be interesting too. What Ben has here are note for note perfect examples that you can follow along in the TEF player. If you have the time to practice and persevere you can get there, which is quite reassuring. So Ben also has the gift of communicating his music to students.
Ben is extraordinarily talented player, who could have followed another path with his music, and we are all lucky to be able to benefit from his teaching.
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Couldn’t have said it better. Thank you!
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There was a time if you asked me what @BanjoBen 's toughest lesson was, I would have responded “the one I’m working on.” All joking aside, two years ago when I started this adventure it was challenging. Not just the music, everything else. The backing tracks and TEF files were new. There was a learning curve there. One of my weaknesses was counting. 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &. Lazy, bad practice habits. And there were the finger twisters. Many of the banjo lessons had what I considered to be impossible measures. I would often put in something I was more familiar with. What about a single string lick?
I remember looking at my first guitar picking lesson. I think it was Cripple Creek. That was the banjo go to so it has to be good for guitar… right? I thought to myself, what evil person came up with pick strokes? Who frets two strings with one finger? And there was Blackberry Blossom. In the B part, Ben said you have to use the pinky picking in the Em part. I tried to prove him wrong but in the end my pinky developed character and strength.
Two years later ask which lesson is the toughest? It’s still the one I am working on. But I have developed new practice habits. Attending camp exposed me to some ideas I think would be hard to learn, at least initially, unless you are there. This adventure is like the mission statement from the old Star Trek episodes. It’s a 5 year mission to seek out and explore… music. To go to camp and meet new people and learn new things. OK, I getting off track. I go back and look at some of those first lessons to plot my progress. They are not as difficult as I thought and the similar lessons come easier.
There are lessons I will never play although I really want to. But I sure do love the challenge and there is nothing better sounding than to finally play that difficult few measures and hear that you did it right.
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