This is probably a topic that gets addressed about 30 million times a day on the inter web……so I’ll ask it here. What is the most tried and true way to determine where you lay in your picking/playing journey? I know that learning and playing any instrument is never completed, conquered by some, but not completed. So what makes a student and intermediate player vs a beginner, vs an advanced player…….in any genre, or instrument? Hope there is a lot of comments, and Merry Christmas to all, and rejoice in the celebration of remembering the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ.
Beginner or intermediate, that’s the question?
7 Likes
When you figure it out let me know. I have been seeking an answer to that very question since I picked up a banjo over 12 years ago.
3 Likes
Usually a website like this is a great way to tell; do the lessons titled Beginner or Intermediate generally fit your challenge level? If the Beginner level lessons are all pretty easy for you then you’re obviously advancing.
8 Likes
It all becomes subjective and rather arbitrary to categorize it but I like to compare this topic to the learning of speech. We can all talk - Some individuals are more eloquent than others, but even the quietest of fellas is somehow able to fully communicate by the age of 8-10 implementing advanced words and phrases. Still we go through life speaking every day and never stop learning new words and phrasings right?
So under this same analogy, I’d say a beginner is like a baby, that will repeat sounds and try to say things that come out awkwardly because they still do not have full control of the language . It means you can only play chunks of music with little control over what you are doing.
After much experimentation, you start making your own decisions and you build your own prashings/playing style. I guess a truly advanced player gets to a point they are so comfortable with their playing that they can make decisions on the spot, improvise and use the instrument the same way we use our voice to convey a message. I am not there yet, but I do hope that is the case one day 
6 Likes
I would say a beginner is someone who is still learning to play the instrument. They can do most things ok, but maybe not in the context of a song. Like slides or pull offs for example. They may be able to show you a pull off, but can’t do it in the flow of the song. Basic chord knowledge, but maybe also not incredibly fluid in the context of a song.
An intermediate player is someone who can use a lot of those techniques in the context of a song, but sometimes the details are a little muddy. They’ve built up a catalog of songs they can play, and they’re still relying on tab for a good amount of songs also. They can get through most of the songs, but there will usually be a little hurdle somewhere in there that trips them up. They probably also feel like they play way better at the table than in a group. Most likely have some theory knowledge, but usually can’t use it on the fly. Deeper knowledge of chords and usually very fluid with changes.
Advanced, in my opinion, is someone who in general has a good command of their instrument. If they look at tab it may be just to see how something was done. But they know exactly where to go on the instrument to get the sound they’re looking for and can do it on the fly and in the context of a song. This doesn’t always mean improvising but often they’re able to do that as well because their knowledge of theory as it applies to their instrument has become almost habit. Since they no longer have to think about the mechanics of what they’re doing, they’re free to sit back and listen to what is going on and react accordingly. I’ve heard it described like improv comedy. In improv there is nothing off the table. No matter what someone says or does the others will automatically follow down that path.
Sorry to ramble that’s just my 2 cents.
8 Likes
I now know my place After 12 years bashing my 
I am still a beginner. What a relief I thought I had made it big time.
3 Likes
The definition of the term “beginner” is “a person just starting to learn a skill or take part in an activity”. However, we musicians typically use the word “beginner” not to just refer to time spent learning an instrument, but rather skill level (e.g. someone who has played 30 years but is still at the level they were at after playing 30 days is still considered a “beginner”).
This terminology may be slightly flawed– after all, to begin is simply to start. The word “intermediate” is defined as “coming between two things”; we only use the term “intermediate” because we like to use the terms “advanced” and “beginner”, and some simply do not fit into two categories.
The problem with using these terms with music is that music is extremely variable, unlike sports, which can often be numerically measured by points or time. Yes, we can measure how fast we can play a song in BPM, but this varies from song to song. We can precisely measure how fast we can play a scale, but we cannot precisely measure “tone”.
Musical skill is a combination of knowledge and execution. You have to know the notes, but if you know them and can’t play them, your knowledge isn’t very useful. Likewise, if you can play the G major scale perfectly every time, but you don’t even know any other scales, your musical tool-box is cripplingly limited.
You can always divide musical skill into smaller and smaller categories. For instance, improvisation>licks>licks in C. However, knowledge and execution still apply to every category, no matter how small it is.
Improvisation itself leans more toward the knowledge aspect. Tone leans toward the execution aspect. Theory has an emphasis on knowledge. Speed has an emphasis on execution. That’s not to say that knowledge doesn’t apply to speed building, or that execution doesn’t affect improvisation. However, the ratio varies between categories.
One player might have certain undesirable tone characteristics, but know a ton of improvisational tools. Another might have perfect tone with every note they play, but play far fewer notes. This is part of what causes difference in playing styles. Some players (usually the pros) are extremely well-balanced; others have a really skewed ratio, which can cause problems.
How does this factor into skill level measurement?
An optimal measurement of skill would probably take into account every category of skill and use a calculation of the knowledge/execution ratio to give you a numerical score in each category. However, we can’t really build a Music-O-Meter to analyze unique tone. Cleanness, maybe, but not tone. We couldn’t build a machine to accurately evaluate musical decisions and improvisation. It could measure variation, sure, but maybe variation isn’t always good. Maybe it sounds good to play the same note twice. So many things are situation-dependent, and taste is really hard to measure. If we were to develop the musical scoring algorithm, it would probably stretch the limits of artificial intelligence and machine learning, and your ear would still be a better measurement of musicality.
It’d probably go viral on the Internet, though.
So here’s a little “Musical Skill Quiz” I made that you can have fun evaluating yourself with. It’s not perfect at all, but it might help you determine which group you fall into and/or help you know where to focus your efforts:
And if you’re still confused? Let me give you the real secret…
It doesn’t really matter. You’re a musician, and it’s more important to focus on how you can get better than how good you already are.
3 Likes
Phew what a relief. So maybe one day I’ll play Carnegie Hall 
4 Likes
Ha well you’re not alone. There’s a saying we have in the fire service that there’s a difference between a 20 year guy and a guy who’s repeated his first year 20 times.
4 Likes
It’s like that in the army.
Q. When do you stop being a rookie?
A. When you hear bullets whizzing over your head and you’d wished you’d dug that foxhole three feet deeper.
4 Likes
Micheal you got me feeling real good. Your quiz calls me advanced and if Micheal Mark says i’m advanced i feal pretty good about myself.
2 Likes
Here’s my take…
If you could do, say, 5 of Ben’s (average) beginner lessons, flawlessly at 100% tempo, you are no longer a beginner.
If you could do, say, 5 of Ben’s (average) intermediate lessons, flawlessly at 100% tempo, you are no longer a beginner or intermediate.
3 Likes
Well we still haven’t heard you play anything, so let’s verify! 
4 Likes
You know one day you’ll here me play. It’s been a long time ago that folks were waiting to here me play. Ya’ll must get tired of the silence 
3 Likes
If i can get the recording and some video software figured out on my brand spankin new IMac then you’ll see me in the Christmas Contest.
5 Likes
And that, Sir, IS the bottom line. (From a guy who has been playing a mandolin for 30 year but finally got serious (c’mon spell check, help me out!) about it and am, officially, having a blast. I ain’t good, but I’m havin’ a blast.
1 Like