Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

5th string nut

#1

I know we are all 5th string nuts here, but I have a question about the 5th string nut setup. I had never paid much attention to it, but I wondered why I need significant tuning adjustment when spiking my 5th string. I noticed that my 5th string nut is not cut deep enough for the string to rest on the 5th fret. Shouldn’t the nut just hold the lateral position while letting the fret do the tuning for better intonation? I only have one banjo, so I don’t have anything else for comparison. It’s not a big deal as I haven’t been fretting higher on the fifth string, but I may as well correct it if it isn’t right.

nut
nut.jpg1398×1153 133 KB

It is hard to see in the picture, but there is a significant gap between the 5th string and the fret. Sorry for the closeup of the string grunge… yuck!

#2

I have my 5th string resting on the 5th fret on all my banjo’s. My very first banjo, a cheap bottle top Asian banjo had the string resting in the peg groove. The peg quickly snapped due to the vibration and I took it back to the shop and traded it up for a better quality banjo.

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#3

I have a Deering Sierra and it does not have a nut at the fifth fret. It’s spiked. I always wondered about that.
"Deering banjos, and others, have a railroad spike in place of the fifth nut and need no further attention. If the string does not bear on the 5th fret, then it will play sharp up the neck, especially when slipped under your new spike. "
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Banjo/5thSpike/5thspike1.html

And later I heard that so many modern banjo players (Jens Kruger, Bela Fleck et al) are using their thumb to fret the fifth string. With a nut, it would “play sharp up the neck.”

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#4

@BanjoBen & I both fret the 5th string with the thumb. Ben has also been known to fret it with his pinky

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#5

OK, I’ll put you in the same class with Jens & Bela. I can’t even find the fifth string with my pinky!

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#6

That 5th nut is called a “pip” as I learned from Ben a few years ago. And yes, its only job is to keep the string in line for the tuner. The string should touch the 5th fret.

Now, just like the nut, the trick is to get the pip slot low enough to do the job, but not so deep that it causes problems for the string.

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#7

I can cut it down a bit and lower the slot in it. That should do the trick. Thanks!

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#8

If you know you know!

#9

@Mark_Rocka thanks for letting me know what it was called. I did further reading on the “pip” and found that the traditional setup is for the string to be above the fret (which allowed hard playing on the open string). More “modern” setups have the string on the fret for consistent intonation up the neck. I went ahead and lowered mine to be on the fret. I will say that apparently I used to whang pretty hard on the 5th string and with the lower action I had to ease off of it a bit.

Here’s a good little article from Mr. Ford:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Banjo/5thNut/5thnut.html

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#10

Interesting article. I’ve never seen some of those set ups… especially having the pip in line with the 5th fret.

Notice, though, that the set up recommending the string touch the fret had the pip set back quite a ways from the fret. You can see how that would mess with intonation if the string didn’t touch the fret, which the article mentions. That appears to be the case on your banjo.

So what happens if to play it too hard now?

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#11

Nothing terrible, just a bit jangly. Kind of like when you flatpick on a guitar setup for very low fingerstyle action. This is a result of the action being significantly lower on the fifth string than it was. The open G action on the fifth string is now similar to when it is spiked at a higher fret. I adjusted to it very quickly and am probably playing more balanced now anyway, so I don’t think it a negative. I guess now I need to work fretting on the fifth string into a song or two :smile:

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#12

Yeah, I’d never done that until joining this site. Ben makes pulling that thumb over to catch the 5th fret way easier than it really is.

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#13

Amen

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