Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Would any of us be here without Earl?

#12

I am surprised by your response @Archie. It seems to me that given a choice, you have the stronger opinion to work inside the question and give a straight answer. :thinking:

Your strong opinions are something I admire about you… to keep things simple and straight forward… not that I don’t appreciate your thoughts behind the response.

That said, I was happy to see that in the end, we both sided with Earl’s influence! :facepunch:

I have a tendency to want to read into questions and add too many factors into it… which is why I appreciate @Dragonslayer’s approach here. :+1:

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#13

I went with the unconventional answer because… well, I think there were a number of factors that all converged at the perfect time for Earl to have established such a strong influence… and clearly, my answer is the affects in American music… Instead of the influence of Banjo in World music context.

Why did I choose that insight or perspective? Because of the nature of the question itself about whether the collective we - ultimately being here.

It was the timing (so often a factor in paradigm shifts) with the recording industry and its’ expanding distribution, Radio in those times, the emergence of Bill Monroe’s Bluegrass style, the method and artistry behind it… and so much more.

The whole ‘Monkeys with typewriters writing a classic’ Theory comes to mind. Sure, it may have happened one day… but in this special case with the Banjo being considered a “Parlor Instrument” of a past era… puts another strong factor on the instrument’s use in any modern music context (of the 1940s, I mean)…just seems to me that it was the perfect storm.

The fact that the question is tough to answer with such limited options is exactly why I liked it.

Bravo @Dragonslayer!

By the way, the nature of the transition of Earl deciding to leave Bill and Bill’s hurtful efforts to keep the “Genie in the bottle” by intimidtion… as in my humble opinion, Bill saw the genuis emerging and a testament to Earl… but that Earl just had to leave… without intention to start his own thing at that time (he decided to play with Lester later so it was NOT an Exodus thing to leave Bill) as I read in Earl’s book.

As Earl went out on his own, it is just so symbolic of soooooo many artists who had to walk their own path in pursuit of their definition of expression and excellence.

Many times, these splits… but sometimes… these moves alter history and have true genius emerge… that surpasses the humble origin… almost as it it would not be denied… or that it was destiny.

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#14

Thanks for the history lesson, Kaleb! That’s a very interesting story, and one that I’m sure has been repeated in many fields by many people through the years.

It’s also interesting that it falls in line with my guess above, that the idea had come and multiple people were working on it simultaneously. It was inevitable.

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#15

Would any of us be here without Earl Scruggs?

I can only speak for myself here (although it’s very possible that Ben’s site- “here”- would be affected in some way if Earl Scruggs never played banjo), but for myself, I’m going to say no. My playing is strongly influenced not only by Earl himself but also those who play very similarly to him (Jim Mills, J.D. Crowe, Russ Carson, Joe Dean, etc.), and although we would probably have people who played 3-finger style banjo, people like those mentioned above might not have taken an interest in the banjo if it weren’t for the particular sound that Earl pulled out of that Granada. Jim Mills said the thing that got him hooked was the particular sound of Scruggs’ original recording of Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Same thing with Russ Carson, who is quoted as saying:

“My Dad was fanatical about recording stuff on VHS, and one of those tapes was Earl Scruggs playing at the Ryman. Ricky (Skaggs) introduces him, and he comes out and plays ‘Foggy Mountain Breakdown.’ I was absolutely obsessed with that. My mother came down about 3 in the morning to find me about four inches from our TV screen, just hitting rewind and rewind, you know. I had to do that. And now I find myself in Ricky’s band playing that stage, almost on a regular basis. I still can’t believe that.”

I’ve seen that performance on YouTube, and before Earl comes out and plays, Ricky Skaggs plays some mellow clawhammer banjo for the audience and says, “That is how banjos would be played today… if it weren’t for Mr. Earl Scruggs.”

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#16

Not sure where your heading with this Will. I have said what I wanted to say on this topic and I see no need to justify it further.

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#17

In this reply, you have said it all. Thanks!

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#18

Very interesting discussion so far!
I do want to just clarify that I asked multiple questions in the post, and the one in the poll is not the exact question as is on the thread title. Sorry for being confusing :joy:

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#19

You hit the nail right on the head. Perfect explanation Michael Mark. I agree with you 100%.

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#20

Wow… Fascinating results! :face_with_monocle:

I’d enjoy to see where @BanjoBen, @MissMaggie, @Jake, @AdamAsh (The Hypeman), @Fiddle_wood, and many others of the “regulars” would weigh-in on the poll and topic!

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#21

Interesting topic for sure!

My first CD was a Flatt & Scruggs CD that my parents got me when we got our first CD player. The first song was the original 1949 version of “Foggy Mtn. Breakdown”. I was probably around 10-12 years old, or so. That’s when I really started getting seriously interested in bluegrass and banjo specifically, although I had grown up watching Hee Haw and listening to bluegrass and had some interest before that. It was a little while longer before I started learning much banjo (I was into guitar at the time).

Earl is pretty much my all-time favorite, and I admire his banjo backup during vocals or other instrumental breaks probably more than anybody’s. However, I will have to agree with a lot of what some others have said. He was not the first person to play a 3-fingered style. I don’t know how much I would have gotten interested in banjo had it not been for Earl, though. Basically all of my favorite banjo players first became interested in banjo listening to Earl (Doug Dillard, Jim Mills, JD Crowe, etc.).

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#22

@AdamAsh,

Insightful comments. Did you register your vote to the poll question above?

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#23

@WillCoop

I just did. I went with the “inevitable” response as I think that’s probably closest to how I see it as far as a 3-finger style existing eventually. However, I can’t help but think about things that we might have missed out on, or how many great banjo players might not have taken the interest if they hadn’t heard Earl at the right place and at the right time. Those banjo players are some of the ones that many of those of us interested in banjo today may have been exposed to first.

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#24

@AdamAsh,

Thanks for posting your poll response! I hope others will continue to take the poll and comment too. I am still thankful to @Dragonslayer for posing the question to contemplate.
.
I see your points… but for me… as I tried to explain in my response… is that Earl was critical… not that there were or were not other 3-finger pickers. There certainly was from what was shared.

To me, the question was whether we, as a community would all be enjoying our community as banjo fans if Earl had not been - well, the original Earl.

In my view, it was about so much more… but the future emergence of Bluegrass as centered around his playing in those years was sooo influential.

We will never know for sure if the emergence would have progressed exactly the same without Earl. What we can all agree, Earl was a strong catalyst to influence its’ popularity, his style and the far reaching affect of his playing… even to crossing over into TV pop culture with his Beverly Hillbillies theme song.

That said, now looking at it… The question was would any of us be here. Individually, I oppose my own response is that undoubtedly, some of us would surely be here - without Earl.

I interpreted “any of us” as… All of us - collectively.

Or… stated differently, would Bluegrass Banjo be as popular today if not for Earl. Probably, I misunderstood…?

I still feel strongly that many of us would not have been here… as Banjo fans if it wasn’t for the sheer brilliancy of Uncle Earl. Where it really shines through to me was the way he was so humble but the deep admiration and respect from artists of HIS time, let alone all of us who followed afterwards.

Long may Earl’s music and style live! :banjo:

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#25

A Sound of Thunder.…

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#26

@Fiddle_wood,

Will you be voting on the poll Dave?

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#27

I do think it was inevitable that someone would develope a three-finger style for the banjo, but speaking for myself personally, I most definitely would not be a banjo player if it were not for Earl’s influence, via The Beverly Hillbillies of course. :wink: I will say this though, in my opinion, Earl was and ever will be the only one who can play “Earl style”. For that, if nothing else, he will always be remembered.

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#28

I think I did with my comment…haven’t read Ray Bradbury?

I was referencing the Butterfly Effect…

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#29

It did show up! Thx

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#30

@WillCoop

I think we’re trying to say the same thing, basically. A lot of what you’re saying is what I was getting at here:

Blockquote

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#31

I think so @AdamAsh! That said, I voted that these results - for me - would NOT have eventually happened WITHOUT Earl… rather than being inevitable.

Still, I respect your (everyone’s) opinion on both sides of the topic!

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