Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Earth

The Gospel which means good news, is simply this…Repent, and put your faith in Jesus to save you. That’s it…very simple.

In the essentials, Unity. In the non-essentials, Liberty. In all things, Charity.

If you desire to discuss this issue further please, PM.

1 Like

Mark, good thinking and good question! You know real and fake currencies. Both look alike. Now can you discount the real currency because of fake ones, or can you accept fake currencies because they look real? And you are at crossroads! You have a choice to make. There is no empty clean house (or vacuum). Something is waiting to fill in.

Apostle John said in I John 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Many false prophets, when? In the very first century! You don’t believe anything by default! But when will you be able to test a spirit? When you are spiritually born and when you seek to be not conformed to the world (reality check can easily prove) from the renewing of your mind (may require further scriptural understanding) as @theChristiancowgirl pointed out. You will be able to know the source of the message - God or Jesus. Jesus said in John 8:28, I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And Jesus’ disciples taught/preached whatever Jesus commanded them. No more, no less. John 3:34, For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. Acts 17:10,11, it says Berean people were more noble because they searched the scripture to make sure Paul’s (one sent by God’s) teaching was true. Moreover, Jesus, Jesus’ disciples and Paul had endorsements from God as a testament to their teaching.

That said, I have not studied the scriptures about “rapture” to conclude one way or the other. Again I consider this more of a peripheral issue. I guess you are fine as long as you are ready to meet the Lord! But when I study I will share my thoughts. So the denomination difference might lie elsewhere, not on what meets the eye. I shared on the topic of love, a core theme. Do you think any of these differing denominations disagree (they may not accept, but disagree I doubt!) to whatever I had to say?? I’ll share one or 2 more examples. We can see what is from being led by spirit and what is not from those. Because the scriptures that I share is to bring to the unity of the faith while exposing the sleight of men mentioned in Ephesians 4.

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

2 Likes

Jack, I’ll do PM as well. Might be tomorrow or weekend…

Mark, I’ll add this.

You know what, mostly they are all gone, right? All pre-18 century and as of now most of the post-18 century rapture theology believers. For the already dead, does rapture - pre-tribulation or post-tribulation - matter?? Obviously not! They have passed through that phase! Regardless they are all going to be judged. Now how is the judgment going to be? Is their pre-tribulation rapture or post-tribulation rapture belief going to be an item point for judgment?? Or would it be solely on their preparedness for the rapture - pre or post tribulation? Or as a judge, would you consider acceptance or rejection of such doctrine as rejection of Jesus words/commandments as in John 12:48?? He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Apostle John in I John 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Should there be a debate necessary on things like how we shall be when we meet the Lord??

I would not use such theology for determining spirit led or non-spirit led teaching. I would consider such theology - one way or the other - as a non-spirit led (carnally minded) teaching if division intended for such beliefs. :wink:

2 Likes

I’ve read the writings of many who believe differently. :wink:

That’s why we call it “faith.” It’s also why I don’t engage in deep debate on the subject of religion. It’s an endless rabbit hole because anyone can use scripture to defend just about any position. If you say “that’s not spirit led” you’re almost certain to be met with hostility. Everyone believes they’re being spirit led (yes, including both of us) but there’s no way that everyone actually is.

So, I’ve just learned to do the best I can, ask forgiveness when necessary (which is all the time) and strive to be better today than I was yesterday.

Mark, we will let the individual decide (including you and me!) which is being spirit led. We will simply place the yardstick. Because I’m pretty sure the very same everyone who said they were led by the spirit would now say they were not if clarity could be introduced to what is meant by “spirit led”!

Let me start with an example. One pastor, who loves quoting the scriptures that I share, shared about spiritual mindedness. After the sermon, he announced a Saturday fasting prayer. Later in the day in private I simply asked him just this - is this your fasting prayer spiritual or not (carnal)?
Being an open person, he immediately admitted that it was not spiritual. You know why? Because he knew this fasting prayer was to counter another fasting conducted at the same time by a newly joined family.

Now what is “spirit led”?

This can be understood in at least 3 ways:

  1. in the context of the text used in Romans 8, spirit inspiration to get “spirit of the law” type of understanding of scriptures. Or simply Jesus word/message minded.
  2. in the context of Acts 8:39, and maybe Matthew 4:1 too, spirit forcefully or otherwise leading/taking someone
  3. in the context of Revelation 1:10, spirit revealing through visions and stuff like that.

In our “rapture” case adjudication, by “spirit led”, I meant using the context 1 in Romans 8. I’m not sure if context 2 & 3 can be used (other than such contexts already in the bible), as it would pave way for story telling. Also I can’t say anything conclusive in this case as I do not know the full facts (scriptures) for rapture.
Sharing of my views is only to be able to get clarity for one to make correct judgment. It would be then up to the readers to take a stand on a particular case to either face hostility from God or from devil/world!!

So using context 1, “Spirit led” (walking after spirit) is what leads you to be spiritual minded. The opposite is “flesh led” (walking after flesh) which leads to carnal mindedness. The example I provided earlier should give a fair idea about what is spiritual and what is carnal.

Now I will explain what you need to do to be “Spirit led”. In order to be spiritual, one should operate through born again spirit (spiritual man). One cannot operate through flesh (carnal man).

It is like this. You are like how you think. In other words, you are like how your mind is. You indulge your mind to something; your action would be based on that something in your mind.

Proverbs 23:7
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

At least there is 2 choices of influence for mind in a born again person.

  1. Get influenced by your flesh (non-desirable)
  2. Get influenced by your born again spirit (desirable)

Flesh and spirit are contradictory by nature. Jesus said in John 3:6,
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Flesh (carnal man) —influence—> Your mind < —influence— Born again spirit (spiritual man)

In order for the 2nd choice to happen, you need to be born of the Spirit. Only then you could allow God’s Spirit to operate and influence your mind and thereby your behavior and activity.

Conventional wisdom expects controlling the flesh through flesh to have a correct behavior/action (this is works, hence a proven failure!) whereas God’s wisdom expects your allowing of God’s Spirit to have a correct behavior/action (this is labor of faith, hence success!). You know Jesus’ word sanctified his disciples! Jesus’ word is spirit! So all you need to do is, just listen to God’s word and believe in it! Your steps will be ordered by it! But then the problem today is, there’s not many (it is hard find) who is sent/appointed by God to dispense His true word, hence false word (false message), and no desired result in churches!

When you accept Jesus to become a Christian, you not only repent but you also consent/agree to play by kingdom of God rules. By design, rules of the worldly kingdom you are in are subordinate to the rules of this spiritual kingdom. So, what is the constitutional guiding principle for the rules of this kingdom of God?

Romans 11:36, For of him(God/Jesus), and through him(God/Jesus), and to him(God/Jesus), are all things:

Here, all things (creations) include man. Since man was created in the image of God, he was given free will, like God to act by his own counsel. Before accepting Jesus, it was of man/devil, and through man/devil, and to man/devil, for the fallen man.

A desire to be of him and through him and to him, and an action you show towards this desire, is what is repentence! When one thus repents and consents to play by kingdom rules (born again - spiritual man is born), one is given a clean slate to start with (justification), lost things in life restored (redemption), all kindgdom benefits (promise for this world and the world to come) becoming available, and help is provided to know and to play by the rules (wisdom and sanctification), all from believing. You then carry out your kingdom responsibility. Thus you become kingdom compliant.

So when someone claims he is spirit led and share a teaching, is he repented and born again? Is he guided by the kingdom principles and rules? Is his teaching fulfill spiritual purpose? If so, his teaching can be spirit led. If not, it is simply flesh led.

I hope you can agree with this yardstick for determining who is spirit led and what is being spirit led.

If anyone found wanting, the gospel is this - repent and believe (like pointed out here!), as the kingdom of God is right here, right now!!!

2 Likes

I’m not sure how well I was able to articulate, as English is my second language. Moreover it is a lengthy write up. Hope you could follow and understand my message.

1 Like

Maybe we should start calling you brother John? Or pastor John…

Gunnar, glad that you liked my post! :slight_smile: Now church is sleeping that old doctrine might very well look new doctrine! (Mark 1:27) There is so so much I’ve learnt in the past few years from God mainly from what I had to go through. It then becomes my duty share. So when chance is provided, I share, and not to bother people otherwise. Calling me brother is fine, and that’s how it should be, but pastor, in all means no!! Pastor is role, not title. In other words, if I let you do that to receive “honor” from you or others, instead of seeking honor from him who sent me, I will be doing disservice. I will not be spirit led according to Matthew 23:8-10. I mean to further clarify what is spirit led with another example.

Matthew 23:8-10
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

2 Likes

:joy::joy: ok, I get that. I do appreciate your posts they make a lot of sense :grin:

2 Likes