Forum - Banjo Ben Clark

Discuss the Guitar lesson: Plectrology– The Study of Flatpicks!

Outstanding presentation on flatpicks! One area I thought could be touched on at some point, is a discussion on bare fingerstyle guitar. To my knowledge, there are at least two different approaches:

• Bare fingers only
• Combination bare finger and nail

I credit B.Ben for getting me hooked on fingerstyle and now have well-developed calluses on my picking fingers. Initially, I was not completely satisfied with my sound with bare finger only and struggled with sound projection to achieve a clean string release. I guess I’ve been spoiled being a banjo-picker with the ‘bell-tone’ release of banjo fingerpicks. Over the next few weeks I studied different fingerstyle techniques and became a little fascinated at players that could fingerstyle with an outstanding tone such as Chet Atkins, etc. Those folks invariably use a finger-stroke with a combination of flesh & nail. This style (flesh & nail) I began to try to copy on my own by growing my picking-hand nails out a bit. I initially met with disastrous results as my nails wore quickly in one spot and lacked the tone I desired. My nails would often ‘crash’ on the string or stick and not swing through the stroke. I quickly became discouraged from ever achieving that clean ‘bell-tone’ fingerstyle release. I went back to the web to research and analyze further what I was doing wrong and what I found out, changed my life in fingerstyle picking for the better!

Long story short, I found that it is necessary to view your individual fingers & nails as virtual guitar-picks. Each finger passes through an orbit as it strikes and releases the string. What I was primarily doing wrong, was that I disregarded the shape of my nails not understanding that each nail has an initial contact-point followed by string travel on the nail followed by a release point. Just as flat-pickers use a pick-shape and angle against the string, so too must the finger-picker shape his/her nails to allow the proper angle of incidence with the guitar string during the finger-stroke. To remedy my problems, I quickly found examples of how a finger-stylist must shape their nails. It’s the shape of your nails, (as opposed to length) that make or break your sound. After I properly shaped my nails almost immediately I began to achieve a guitar-sound that just makes my guitar ring. What a delightful sound!

Attached is a photo of properly shaped fingernails. One general key, is that typically ones’ nails are trimmed with a slant towards the thumb. After doing so and holding your fingers in position on your guitar strings, you’ll see why. This geometric shape angles the nail to achieve a contact & release point as the string contacts the flesh of your fingertip, ramps up the nail and releases with a clean ‘bell-tone’. Since everyone has different shaped fingers, your nails will not doubt need to be customized for your own playing. Once the best nail-profile is achieved however, it must be retained while your nail grows (a necessary downside). After achieving the correct profile, I use fine-grit sandpaper (2,000-grit) to polish the contact points to allow the string to glide smoothly across the nail during the stroke. My fingers & nails have essentially become my picks. I can’t put my guitar down!

Happy Picking!

PS: So what if you have short, thin or lousy nails? All is not lost read on……….(don’t laugh) :wink: but it’s fairly well-known that Chet Atkins (and others) used Ping-Pong balls on occasion to back-up his nails to provide an ablative surface and to restore correct shape to a damaged nail. Ping-Pong balls are made of a plastic that ironically mimics the thickness and sound of natural nails. Initially, I tried his method to achieve the correct nail geometry for fingerstyle. In short, the key is to cut the Ping-Pong ball to fit UNDER your nail-tip in the curved shape of the quick of your nail. Get a good fit against the quick and super-glue it in place to the underside of your nail. Let dry a min or two, then file your nail to the correct shape. In addition to obtaining the correct nail shape for fingerstyle, it provides an ablative-surface to protect against wear and since it’s under the fingernail, it’s not too noticeable. I was skeptical, but it works splendidly. Good ol’ Chet Atkins. Who knew?

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Three picks that I think excel at this are the Primetone textured (bumpy), the Wegens (drilled) and the BlueChip (tacky).

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I think this depends on your hands and fingers: I have really dry calloused hands (especially in the winter due to working outside) and the picks with grips and holes are actually harder to grip because of… well, their grips. I find that highly polished picks stick better to dry hands (or fingers) such as a Blue Chip. Like Mike said, they are tacky. The absolute best , stickiest, cling to your fingers picks I’ve ever used are V- Picks made in Tennessee as are Blue Chip. There are lots of variations, shapes, thicknesses and sizes to choose from and they really do stick. The problem is, I’ve personally never been able to get great tone out of them like I can with Blue Chip or Dunlop Primetones (smooth ones though without the rough texture).

We’re all different and there’s no right or wrong, just “pick” what works best for you. It’s always fun trying different picks. Oh, and I find that real turtle that’s polished is also very clingy or tacky.

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For Ben and others can certainly comment.

Playing guitar now for fourteen (14) years; use a light pick for strum/sing and firmer pick sometimes for basic flat picking but don’t do much cross picking. A buddy loaned me a cheap mandolin so giving it a try on this website. In saying that, one of the mandolin videos you stated that you have “morphed” into a triangle pick. I have started by turning a guitar heavy pick “sideways” as recommended on one of the videos. Two questions concerning mandolin:

  1. Any particular reason you now use triangle pick? Easier? Improvement over tear shaped/etc?

  2. Cross picking: Would you say that mandolin is easier to cross pick than guitar? I’ve only done one video “drill” and seems like it may be easier or my imagination or too early to tell just yet.

Thanks,
Odie

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HI @redmondod and welcome ot the forum!

a little on pick choice…

one advantage ot a triangle is that all three sides are the same, if you have troble with a pick turning in your hand.

For some folks, it’s just how the pick feels in their hand, or the amount of control/accuracy they feel they get with it.

For others it might be the tone produced. Different picks can help you get the current instrument you’re playing closer to producing the tone you think you want to hear. Thicker and rounder picks can bring out a mellower/darker tone, where thinner and pointier picks can produce a brighter/thinner sound.
Different materials can also produce different tones.

It really all comes down to personal preferance.

Myself I find guitar easier to crospick on, but I’m more familiar with the string spacing, and the strings are not in pairs…but that’s just me…

Dave

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I’ve just gotten to where I prefer the bigger pick in my hand, but I have no objective reason for why it’s better. I personally think crosspicking is easier on guitar, the wider string spacing actually helps me.

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Thanks

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I’'m late to this party but I like V Picks when it comes to a higher end pick. I use Mummy.

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I’m a tele player and pick hybrid with fake nylon nails. I’m trying to work on my flat picking on acoustic and recently went through a dozen different picks trying to find one I like. My favorite so far for flat picking bluegrass is the Pro Plec 1.5mm I found on Amazon. Pretty affordable. I put a little bevel on them with some sandpaper and they are ready to go. They do warp slightly after a while but I kind of like it and just flip them over if it gets too bad. I like the attack and tone. Not real glassy on the drop test. Not sure what they are made of. I score them a little with a razor knife so they have a bit of ‘diamond plate’ to hang on to. Maybe I’ll take my change jar into the bank and try a Blue Chip one day. Thanks for the vid for the pick geeks.

Funny story… while back I was at the gas station in Telluride and I needed a penny so I reached in the penny tray and there was one of my picks in there that someone had probably found on the floor. I hadn’t been to that station in months… made my day!

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No way, wow!

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@claytrell,

Welcome to the forum. What a story…

Thanks for sharing.

Hello All,

As of late, I have tried switching over to thicker flat picks (Blue Chip CT -55, Dunlop Prime Tone 1.4, etc…) for both guitar and mandolin. I have loved the way that these pick play and feel. However, I have been a very noticeable chirping/ringing sound when I flatpick on my guitar (especially on the high E and B strings). Has anyone else encountered this before? Any idea on how to fix this?

I would assume that this is user error, but I am also surprised that I have not ever encountered this is my 8 years of playing with lighter picks. I would prefer to stick with the thicker picks because of their playability and tone, but I might just switch back because of this chirping/ringing noise.

FYI I playing on a martin dreadnought with medium gauge martin strings.

Cheers,
Josh

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First, welcome to the forum! I’d have to hear it myself…it may not be as undesirable as you think :slight_smile: Can you take a vid?

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https://banjoben-discourse-upload.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/2X/b/ba449b9cf4a8db58263d304ceececc64d8c1abbe.m4a https://banjoben-discourse-upload.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/2X/2/2038439e65c4b0903209843ff5dfc7eff1f22f0d.m4a

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Hey Ben,

Thanks for the quick response. I posted a few recordings that showcase the sound. I can probably record a video later if that would work better. Let me know!

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Josh

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Welcome to the forum, @joshuatbeasley!

It doesn’t sound super drastic to me, but it sounds like you might be angling your pick a little too far downward. I get the same type of sound on my two unwound strings if I angle my pick too far downward/towards the bridge. I’d suggest angling it slightly flatter and see if it helps. Picking slightly heavier/more strongly might help as well, as if you pick more quietly, you will get more pick noise.

Nice picking, by the way! :+1:

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I agree with @Michael_Mark, also you should consider a pick with a more rounded edge. My fave is the TP-1R 40: https://store.banjobenclark.com/products/bluechip-tp-1r-40

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@Michael_Mark Thanks! That makes sense. I’ll try making those changes.
@BanjoBen I’ll check out that pick. I think I might actually prefer the rounded edge.

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For flatpicking / crosspicking, I almost exclusively use blue chip picks when playing my own two guitars (Martin D18 and my “travel” guitar a Taylor 110e). Reasons: tone, just-right tackiness for good grip without over-doing it, and durability. I also really like the "Banjo Ben bum-budda=bum pick he tossed in gratis with my G-run T-shirt order, but don’t get around to using it very often because no disrespect, but the BCs live in-case nestled in the strings at about the second fret, and so there’s not much motivation to dive into the Altoids mint can in the case storage compartment (where the BB pick lives along with a bunch of 1.0mm Tortex picks). I do keep one of the Tortexes stashed in my jeans pocket for junkets to sample the merch at local guitar stores - they’re decent, yet cheap enough that if I lose it it’s no big loss (contrariwise, risk-of-loss why the Banjo Ben pick doesn’t go along on guitar store junkets).

Just started fingerpicking when Ben’s initial fingerpicking lessons came out - so far, I’m going all-natural fingers, no Thumb or finger-picks, even though I have a set in my pick-case of each of my two respective guitars. I strictly use the fleshy parts of my thumb and fingers - I find the fingernails of my right picking hand are more hinderance than help, and so keep 'em clipped short, maybe not as relentlessly as for my left fretting hand, but enough to keep the nails reliably out of the way. I have no trouble getting good tone with just fleshy finger pads; rather I find it more challenging to cleanly fret notes for fingerpicking than flatpicking, especially with using the thumb vastly more often to fret the 6th string fingerpicking than with flatpicking (only rarely use the thumb for fretting there).

Finding the right picking material (pick or finger-part) seems to be 1/3 materials science, 1/3 technique, and 1/3 taste, and everyone comes up eventually with what seems the right mix for their purposes.

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One BIG downside to Blue Chip picks (apart from their being rather expensive) is their brown color would be the perfect choice if the primary goal was camouflage. Just try to find it if you inadvertently drop one on a red-brown oriental rug. Supposedly the material they are made from is infeasible to make in a different color than mud-brown, which is why they aren’t actually blue.

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